Speaker 1en
So, good evening, everyone, and welcome to this press conference following the first meeting of the Energy Council under the Irish Presidency. We're joined here by Darryl Bryan, Minister for Climate Energy and the Environment; Timmy Dooley, Minister of State at the Department of Climate Energy and the Environment with special responsibility for the marine; and Dan Jørgensen, European Commissioner for Energy and Housing. So I'm first going to give the floor to Minister O'Brien, then Minister Dooley, and then the Commissioner. Minister O'Brien.
Speaker 2en
Should I go over Tasha Gromal? Good. Patter, good afternoon, everyone, and Dan, I'd like to thank you and the member states for a really productive first meeting of the Energy Council under the Irish Presidency today, and a sincere thank you for your engagement today. This morning we had a very constructive first discussion on the network charges proposal, the ongoing conflict, obviously, in the Middle East is a stark reminder that EU electrification is an economic and security imperative. The network charges file will help accelerate our EU-wide electrification agenda, and will help make Europe the world's first electric continent. Its goal is to help us optimize the use of new and existing grid infrastructure. We'd be very open to exchange this morning, and we are certainly going to take on board the views of member states as we move this proposal forward to the December Council meeting. It's important that we agree on the real impact that this could have for our citizens and our ambition, as I said, is to reach a general approach on network charges at the December Energy Council. I'd also like to point to the importance of the European Grids package to the EU's electrification agenda. We need to deploy grid infrastructure to realize our ambition for a more electrified, a more efficient energy system, which will put downward pressure on prices borne by our citizens and our businesses. Negotiations with the European Parliament on the grids package are well underway, and we do intend to reach final agreement under our presidency. We also had a valuable exchange of views on energy security, with a view of the looking at the upcoming winter in particular, but beyond that too, and I was really glad to have Darren the Moldovan Minister for Energy and that he accepted the invitation of the Irish Presidency to join the discussion today and for him to present to member states and colleagues around the experience in Moldova and the risks to that they are enduring every single day of the week, and every week of the year.
Regrettably, our Ukrainian Minister Denis was not able to join the meeting because of Russian attacks against Ukrainian energy infrastructure. And I would like to once again express the EU's full solidarity with the people of Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression. Russia's war against Ukraine and the ongoing crisis in the Middle East and the climate-related risks have driven up energy costs all across Europe. We'd have very good exchange amongst ministers following up on the discussion held by our leaders earlier this month. We also had a very useful discussion, I thought, on the post-2030 framework, focusing in on energy targets and this was an important opportunity for member states and colleagues to articulate their priorities for the framework as the Commission works to develop and finalize the proposal, which Dan, our Commissioner, has confirmed will now be published in Quarter One of next year. You will have seen from today's Council that the Irish Presidency is focused on helping Europe deliver clean and affordable energy for our citizens. This is a shared agenda of the European Union. We have important work to do as we prepare for the next Energy Council in December, and I'm very, very grateful for the support and engagement of the member states indeed of the Commission and of the European Parliament. So with that, I'd like to hand over to my colleague Minister Dooley, who will take you through the lunchtime discussion.
Speaker 1en
Thanks very much, Darryl and Dan. Great to have been part of the discussions today. Over lunch we had a constructive discussion on how investment roadmaps could help the EU to deliver the very significant investments that's needed for the energy sector in the years ahead. Now, of course, as part of the reform of the upcoming governance regulation, ministers reflected on how investment roadmaps could provide clearer signals to investors and also to help member states identify the investments needed for energy transition. The discussions focused on the importance of simplification looking at how these roadmaps can provide clear and accessible information for both investors and member states, and while retaining the key data and milestones needed to track progress, the discussions of course goes to the heart of the Irish Presidency theme of competitiveness. Clearer and more predictable investment planning can help mobilize investment while strengthening the clean energy transition and Europe's competitiveness, and it was very clear from the discussion that member states recognized the importance of legal certainty and good governance to ensure that investment was protected and was that the opportunities were attractive to the wider investment community. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3en
Thank you. Thank you, ministers. I agree that we've had a very good day. There's no doubt that. Ministers from all member states know that we are facing a difficult winter. The crisis that we're in right now, due to the situation in the Middle East, means that we are looking at very high prices of both gas and oil products, we. Do not expect the security of supply issue as such but for the citizens that are struggling to pay their bills that might not matter. If you are not able to pay your gas bill, it doesn't really matter how much gas is out there so we need to take this extremely serious and this is also why we today amongst other things discussed what can actually be done also in the short term and things can be done. So there's the possibility of course of using subsidies if member states choose to subsidize fossils which I understand that sometimes can be necessary we agreed at these measures needs to be targeted and temporary I think it's also fair to say that there's a clear understanding in the room amongst ministers that supporting efforts that are also to the benefit of our long-term transition is very beneficial so any measures that has to do with electrification moving away from gas boilers, oil boilers into heat pumps electric vehicles instead of combustion engine cars and so forth this can really mean a lot also on the short term now on the question of diesel um. We are in the process of stabilizing the diesel markets as best we can as winters begin today. We had a very important discussion on the state of play of the oil stock release EU member states have reaffirmed their commitment to an accelerated release of 42.6 million barrels from strategic reserves over the next months and around half of this will be diesel. We of course also discussed the situation in Ukraine unfortunately we are looking into a winter again that will be very harsh with Russia keeping unfortunately the focus on attacking energy infrastructure in the most brutal way and we stand firm in our support for Ukraine both technically but obviously of course also
financially to rebuild and secure their energy sector. Thank you.
Speaker 1en
Thank you very much, Commissioner, and ministers. So I'm going to open up the floor to questions from the room and online as well. It's possible please state your name and your media outlet. Fabio.
Fabio NapoliItalian News Agency Public Policyen
Yes. Hi. Thank you for the floor. This is Fabio Napoli for the Italian News Agency Public Policy. I got a question on metane regulation even if it's an off topic I would like to know from the minister O'Brien since the parliament already voted for. Three years postponement and here in the council there are two block one asking for one year and one another for three years what can be the landing zone for the commission. I would like to know if you are happy with the three years postponement and if the college is later are going to agree on a two years or three years if the commission is ready to withdraw its proposal. Thank you.
Speaker 1en
Thanks, Fabian. Firstly just to state the obvious the time is of the essence on this because the regulations as previously agreed will come into force from January of next year. So there is a lot of work going on in that regard to try to find a workable way forward that will gain that will gain agreement. Obviously we're not there yet and we're not going to discuss that those elements you know here publicly but I think there is a desire to find a workable compromise noting obviously the vote of the parliament as well but work is ongoing. I think we want to really come back next week by the 6th of November actually and we've had discussions with our own team here in Luxembourg and indeed right the way through and in Brussels in that regard. So time is of the essence if there is to be an agreement on this which we obviously will work as hard as we can in the Irish presidency to assist and make sure that that happens. Commissioner?
Speaker 3en
So my opinion is still of course that the proposal that we in the commission put forward is. Adequate with regards to securing the situation in the coming winter. Hopefully a year from now will be in a completely different situation so I would very much still argue that one year is the right balance to find also with regards to the overall ambition of legislation that we're actually proud of that will help us fight methane emissions.
Speaker 1en
Thank you. Next I have Ian.
Ian JohnsonFinancial Timesen
Hello Ian Johnson from the Financial Times. Thanks very much for taking the time. Question to both Minister O'Brien and Commissioner Jorgensen. In the text the discussions around the taxation proposal are of the network charges package there was a clear rejection from many member states. Does that provision now seem dead to you in this proposal? And secondly on the particularly to Commissioner Jorgensen on the stock release discussions of 42.6 million barrels to be released by the 15th of January that's about four days worth of EU oil use. Do you think that will realistically bring down prices for consumers and businesses?
Speaker 1en
Thank you Ian. I'll take the network charges piece first and as I mentioned in my opening statement and I said to colleagues again today our absolute desire is to get network charges back at the December council energy council meeting for agreement to reach a general a general approach on that and I think today was really important that it was the first time kind of formally in the room that people were able to articulate their their own positions on that and as I said to colleagues today we'll reflect on that working with the commission taking on board the the quite in some instances forthright views that were put forward from some member states and that's fine and that's where that's we're there for but I think it is acknowledged to be fair that it is critically important that we move network charges forward so we'll be working over the coming weeks on that having taken into account the views of member states I wouldn't say anything is dead or off the table or anything like that at all at this stage it's just important that we reflect and as presidency as I said that we're in a constructive way that we actually move this forward because we must I think when people in fairness if you look at the desire they're in the room even though people had certain different maybe coming from things from different angles there was an absolute desire amongst ministers there in the room to move this file forward and we will do everything we can to get this back in December for general approach.
Speaker 3en
Well I will certainly continue to to argue that lowering taxes on electricity is the right way to go. Member states are asking the commission for ideas and guidance in. A situation that is very difficult how can we lower prices what can we do what can the European Union do well this is an example of something we can do that will work short term and will also help our long-term strategy. If you lower the prices of electricity it will immediately be seen on the bills of our consumers citizens and companies alike and it will give incentives for those who want to change away from the fossil alternatives. In some member states we have um. Tax legislation that means that there's a four times higher tax on electricity than on gas this is obviously counterproductive towards our our objectives and I think that a crisis like this is a good opportunity to to do something about it. On on diesel of course we will together with IEA monitor the the effects this is not the only thing we're doing yesterday Commissioner Kubilius and myself had the first dialogue meeting with the refineries trying to ramp up their production even more but there's no doubt that we will do whatever we can but at the end of the day we are looking into a winter with high prices on diesel. And that is a consequence of the geopolitical situation that we're in right now.
Speaker 1en
Thank you. Next I have Nicholas.
Speaker 4en
Thank you Nicholas Comaya for rapporteur. Like you said Commissioner Jorgensen the winter is promising to be tough there's growing calls also particularly from certain countries that repower you the ban on Russian gas should be reconsidered in that light do you think that's something that you will take on board especially given the fact that you have yet to propose the Russian oil ban and Minister O'Brien how do you square the circle between the willingness to get this over the line ASAP and at the same time there's also a blocking minor majority now when it comes to the harmonization of network tariffs there's the French non-paper the French German alliance on this do you see yourself reducing this proposal more to a focus on grid congestion is that where you see the discussion heading thank you.
Speaker 3en
So let let me let me start. The the position of the commission is very clear on this we have. Introduced a ban that's being implemented now on the import of Russian gas and that ban stands why first of all because if we repeated the mistakes of our past then we would again be in the pocket of an enemy I. Served as minister in Denmark in February 22 so I know what it's like to be a minister that has to fear whether or not the gas taps are being turned off the next day we had to make lists of companies that we would close down by force if necessary and we were not even half as exposed in Denmark as many other member states Germany got gas from Russia to a degree that if that had been closed down from one day to the next the country would have been in recession probably so that's a very vulnerable situation to be in and we should never put ourselves in that situation again second this is a country that's used its energy deliverance to us. As a means to blackmail us of course 100% unacceptable and thirdly this is more for political statement but nonetheless listen. The money that we have spent in Europe buying Russian gas has helped finance a war against our friends buying bombs and drones that kill people in Ukraine so no we do not want to start buying Russian gas again.
Speaker 1en
Just Nicholas narration that network charges and where you see where we see that moving politics is the art of the possible we listen to our colleagues today we take on board what was said you've heard from our commissioner as well and the presidency will work on behalf of the member states and with the commission to come forward with to move this forward and we're still determined to get this back to December council meeting I'm optimistic not naive these things aren't easily done people come from different points of view different countries have different attributes as well to to their own systems too but I think fundamentally there's an absolute understanding there I didn't have any minister say to me that there that the network charges as they remain currently should be should persist into the future we've always got to look at reform revision and doing things better and obviously that plus the grids package which we discussed today are two really critical parts of actually you know taking the next step forward for the EU in relation to that electrification that I spoke on earlier on driving affordability supporting competitiveness as well so it was a really good discussion today yeah different points of view that's fine but look we'll we will work with our colleagues on that in a very respectful way to come forward with to come back again hopefully for general approach in December and that's what we're determined to do. Thank you. Ben please.
Speaker 4en
Hi Ben Munster from Politico and thank you for this the first question is what the question is directed towards Dan Jorgensen so you mentioned you know that there are short-term measures that were raised today but you you sort of mentioned you basically just mentioned fuel subsidies were there other short-term measures that were raised today that the commission might put forward in the future obviously we only have two months left and on the subject of fuel subsidies you you know you you sort of semi-endorse that idea you know you said that there's some countries that you know where it's acceptable with the commission consider sort of increasing flexibilities around the fiscal rules to to accommodate more you know tax cuts on on petrol and diesel and stuff like that I might also add a methane question if I'm allowed so. I think you said that you stand by the one year delay that the commission put forward obviously we have the parliament now pushing for three years why didn't the commission try and enforce that one year delay I mean did you I mean there was some calls for the commission to you know threaten to withdraw the bill to make sure that countries and parliamentarians didn't go further than the one year delay but it didn't there wasn't much of an effort to ensure that you know the co-legislators didn't get carried away essentially and I'm wondering why the commission didn't do that. Thank you.
Speaker 3en
So what can be done on on on a short term? Well there are actually things that member states can do and some are doing it. Social leasing schemes for electric vehicles social leasing schemes for heat pumps subsidies for replacing your gas boiler with heat pump subsidies for renovation changing windows insulation stuff like that so this is not one solution of course there's no silver bullet but when you add all of these things up it can actually matter and if we and if we look at what we did in 22 in in Europe it was a lot of efforts like these that actually in many member states led to a decrease in demand of of gas we've seen it also since February now in in Europe again and and I applaud it I think there's potential to do more of that sort and this is also why I keep arguing that lowering the the tax on electricity is one very good way of incentivizing this whilst at the same time giving relief to to consumers on on the fossil subsidies you said I halfway endorsed it well that may be one way of of of putting it I don't think any of us likes subsidies on something that we actually trying to get rid of that's for sure I don't think any minister around the table today wanted that on the other hand I also used to serve as as minister in a country where we were on one hand really fighting very very hard to get out of gas and replace it by electrification or district heating but at the same time we actually did give a direct subsidy for those using gas when the crisis was hardest the last time so I understand it because if people are freezing I mean this is what we're talking about people are freezing then of course policymakers need to be able to help same goes for for the ability to put some fuel on your car so that you can go to work I I understand it but but I at the same time I I just want to underline that it's extremely important that this is targeted and temporary and it's extremely important that if there are alternatives that might might work just as well that would indeed be in line with our long-term strategy then that is a much smarter way
to go about it on the methane we we put forward our proposal let's see what what parliament and and council can can agree on we want to help facilitate that discussion as best we can of course but there is a reason why I put forward the proposal I did this is because we think that that is the right balance that that we found.
Speaker 1en
And just really briefly on one thing to the commissioner spoke about you know member states taking individual action as well and what's appropriate like those targeted supports I'm going to give just two Irish examples we've done that for low middle income households through fuel supports we've increased those fuel supports and we extended the term in which they're paid so direct payments to assist families with increased fuel costs and we're we're agnostic on where the what type of fuel that they get because as Dan said rightly we're acutely aware of there's you know there are millions of people literally within the union who can't afford to pay their bills and they make a decision to say well I'm going to switch my heat on or not over the course over the course of winter the other thing I would say again is like on retrofitting we use our carbon tax in Ireland to actually retrofit homes so actually this year alone from January to to last month we've 100,000 households have applied for retrofitting we've done 300,000 households out of a stock of just over 2 million now what does that do it actually reduces their energy consumption reduces their bills as well makes their homes warmer more efficient healthier and reduces that demand as well things like solar like like domestic battery like windows and doors grants attic insulation all of those various different things so lots of member states are doing things and that protects then permanently against future price shocks too because it drives those costs down for families as does EVs and that I don't think it's a coincidence that that EVs are like the number one choice of of vehicle now that people are buying yes very good for the for the environment and that's what we want certainly but again cost you're looking average cost savings about 1600 euro per year in relation to an ICE car versus versus an EV so I think the people are in some instances ahead of this and they need to be supported through it but the bigger picture is is that is that at a grid level and an energy generation level is
accelerating our renewables and and accelerating electrification. Thank you very much minister we have time for one final question here thank you.
Speaker 4de
Johannes Winterhagen, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung
Speaker 4en
I'd like to know how much you discussed about resilience in this context and the idea especially on the refineries strategy how would you manage is there an idea how to manage a phase out industry to keep capacities in Europe.
Speaker 3en
So what we decided yesterday in in the first dialogue meeting we had was that we're working towards making a road map together with the refineries because they are in a difficult situation right now we're asking them to deliver more for our societies and they are doing so and we're grateful we also know that after a
crisis there's going to be a surplus of the products that they produ