WEBVTT NOTE Brussels Live. Transcribed and translated automatically from the original sound. Mistakes are possible. Independent service, not affiliated with the European Parliament or the European Commission. Source: © European Union. AI-generated: Transcripts, translations and summaries on this site are generated automatically by AI: speech recognition (Soniox), machine translation and summaries (Mistral AI). Not edited by humans before publication. EU AI Act, Article 50. 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000 We should encourage innovation, not undermine the competitive advantage of companies 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000 investing in cleaner technologies. Third, on regulatory simplification, the 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.510 Commission proposes an additional reporting requirement concerning the purpose of 00:00:02.711 --> 00:00:10.545 airport of call. Yet this formation is already relevant to determining whether a 00:00:10.639 --> 00:00:17.708 ship's stop qualifies as a port of call under the existing MRV framework. 00:00:17.768 --> 00:00:22.262 In this point, I propose deleting this additional reporting obligation, avoiding 00:00:22.328 --> 00:00:26.836 unnecessary duplication. Better regulations should mean more effective monitoring, 00:00:26.902 --> 00:00:31.565 not simply more reporting. And fourth, on competitiveness and carbon leakage, 00:00:31.621 --> 00:00:35.466 European shipping operates in a highly competitive global market; 00:00:35.528 --> 00:00:40.775 we need effective measures to prevent carbon leakage at the diversion of maritime 00:00:40.838 --> 00:00:45.387 traffic away from European ports, with therefore must preserve a genuine lever 00:00:45.444 --> 00:00:49.729 playing field and avoid placing European ports and shipping companies at a 00:00:49.792 --> 00:00:51.608 competitive disadvantage. Thank you. 00:00:52.028 --> 00:00:53.768 Thank you. For SND, Andrew Katis. 00:01:02.588 --> 00:01:06.188 Thank you. Thank you very much, indeed. I would like to speak in Lithuanian. 00:01:14.048 --> 00:01:21.302 I would like to draw attention to those colleagues who argue for the fundamental 00:01:21.397 --> 00:01:27.098 necessity of abolishing the ETL system. But I would like to remind them that both 00:01:27.150 --> 00:01:33.178 the Draghi report and the LETA report as well, I would like to draw attention to 00:01:33.238 --> 00:01:37.549 those colleagues who argue for the need to abolish the ETL system in principle. 00:01:37.613 --> 00:01:44.729 But I want to remind them that both the Draghi report, the LETA report, and the 00:01:44.806 --> 00:01:50.188 Ninisto report—three reports that present huge economic calculations—none of them 00:01:50.257 --> 00:01:56.192 recommend abandoning the ETL. On the contrary, they calculate that this is a major 00:01:56.251 --> 00:01:59.018 competitive advantage for the European Union. 00:01:59.087 --> 00:02:04.787 Next, I thank Peter Liese for his work, but I also want to remind everyone that 00:02:04.860 --> 00:02:12.168 pollution claims the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, and when we talk 00:02:12.231 --> 00:02:17.660 about climate change, we must consider how many excess deaths from climate change 00:02:17.709 --> 00:02:19.840 there are in the European Union this year. 00:02:19.910 --> 00:02:25.044 Calculate the human losses. If you do not understand that climate change 00:02:25.113 --> 00:02:29.837 comprehensively affects the quality of life of our people, labour productivity, 00:02:29.880 --> 00:02:34.612 jobs, and reduces our demographic position, then perhaps you will understand how 00:02:34.678 --> 00:02:38.972 important it is to maintain ETL as a comprehensive measure not only for combating 00:02:39.023 --> 00:02:43.627 climate change, not only for competitiveness, but also for protecting human lives. 00:02:43.675 --> 00:02:47.366 We must once again turn our attention to that human capital which needs to be 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:51.624 preserved. Without it, the European Union will not be able to maintain any 00:02:51.696 --> 00:02:56.648 competitiveness. We need to ensure that as many people as possible are protected 00:02:56.715 --> 00:03:00.532 from pollution and harmful substances. This is also about studies. 00:03:00.588 --> 00:03:04.640 This is health economics. The ETL is also active here, so to all those who argue 00:03:04.685 --> 00:03:08.048 against it, I would like to suggest reading the statistics and real numbers. 00:03:14.228 --> 00:03:17.288 Thank you. Our last speaker is Ference from Patchets. 00:03:18.488 --> 00:03:20.048 Thank you, Chair. I will speak in Hungarian. 00:03:21.848 --> 00:03:26.236 Dear Colleagues! On the ETS reform, it is not enough to merely talk about a few 00:03:26.288 --> 00:03:30.668 technical adjustments. We have already held several debates on this topic, but the 00:03:30.714 --> 00:03:34.627 situation fundamentally has not changed. Honourable colleagues! 00:03:34.682 --> 00:03:39.221 With regard to the ETS reform, it is not enough to talk merely about a few technical 00:03:39.263 --> 00:03:44.886 amendments. We have already held several debates on this topic, but the situation 00:03:44.953 --> 00:03:50.135 has not fundamentally changed. Reading the proposal, several parts of the system are 00:03:50.189 --> 00:03:53.324 affected. However, one issue is conspicuously avoided: 00:03:53.384 --> 00:03:58.988 as the EPP representative put it earlier, the elephant in the room. 00:03:59.057 --> 00:04:03.576 And that is the ETS2, or the carbon tax. In our opinion, the ETS2 should be 00:04:03.633 --> 00:04:08.266 completely abolished, as its costs will be borne by European households. 00:04:08.328 --> 00:04:13.070 This carbon tax would impose a disproportionate burden on households, particularly 00:04:13.143 --> 00:04:17.704 in the areas of heating and transport. In light of current energy and fuel prices, 00:04:17.748 --> 00:04:21.144 we simply cannot allow this system to enter into force. 00:04:21.194 --> 00:04:23.714 And I would also like to ask the EPP a question: 00:04:23.770 --> 00:04:29.660 we have heard here that several of their Members also demand the abolition of ETS2. 00:04:29.742 --> 00:04:34.282 This is welcome. But then why does not every delegation of the EPP, particularly 00:04:34.344 --> 00:04:38.121 those coming from Central Europe, represent this position? 00:04:38.172 --> 00:04:42.325 It is also your responsibility to save the people living in our countries from 00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:43.580 further burdens. 00:04:43.688 --> 00:04:44.888 Thank you. 00:04:50.768 --> 00:04:56.626 Okay, so now for the Commission. We give the floor to Mette Quinn, Head of Unit 00:04:56.752 --> 00:04:59.648 DigiClima B1. You have the floor for five minutes. 00:05:05.348 --> 00:05:12.850 Thank you very much. Delivering a five-minute reaction to more than 3,000 amendments 00:05:12.952 --> 00:05:18.315 is challenging. To say the least. But following this debate, I would like to 00:05:18.368 --> 00:05:24.638 highlight three things. First, the need for a stable, credible, and predictable 00:05:24.692 --> 00:05:31.610 framework for the EU ETS. This is essential for business investment planning and for 00:05:31.718 --> 00:05:37.576 decarbonization. This means a decarbonization pathway that is fully in line with the 00:05:37.628 --> 00:05:42.216 climate law and delivers on its 2040 target. 00:05:42.368 --> 00:05:47.840 Also, avoiding more costly and complex efforts outside the EU ETS. 00:05:48.068 --> 00:05:53.104 This is exactly what the Commission proposal delivers, based on targets and 00:05:53.182 --> 00:06:00.404 flexibilities set in the climate law. The cap in 2040 is based on economic modeling 00:06:00.493 --> 00:06:07.481 for a cost-effective distribution between the EU ETS and the non-ETS sectors. 00:06:07.688 --> 00:06:13.218 This also means safeguarding the ETS as a clear, transparent, and robust 00:06:13.303 --> 00:06:20.248 market-based system that is key to its success, to market participants, investment 00:06:20.314 --> 00:06:24.199 predictability, and to cost effectiveness. 00:06:24.308 --> 00:06:28.523 And it means stability and clarity from the start. 00:06:28.628 --> 00:06:34.193 No change in conditions all the time. So that the future ETS continues to be a 00:06:34.268 --> 00:06:39.081 long-term framework for industrial decision-making. 00:06:39.188 --> 00:06:42.851 Second, we welcome the very clear support from the Parliament to the solid 00:06:42.903 --> 00:06:46.425 investment and innovation drive in the proposal. 00:06:46.508 --> 00:06:51.806 A strong industrial decarbonization bank is crucial to support industry accelerate 00:06:51.867 --> 00:06:55.721 low-carbon investments and enhance competitiveness. 00:06:55.808 --> 00:07:02.931 We would therefore like to stress the need to maintain the proposed budget so it 00:07:03.039 --> 00:07:08.283 remains commensurate with the challenge that we are facing and to strike the balance 00:07:08.348 --> 00:07:15.395 between funding the best projects avoid fragmentation administrative simplicity and 00:07:15.468 --> 00:07:22.571 speed as well as solidarity. We also thank you for the strong support for more 00:07:22.628 --> 00:07:29.412 targeted spending of national ETS revenues for the ETS decarbonization. 00:07:29.528 --> 00:07:35.847 And we remind of the importance of balancing continued solidarity with reciprocity 00:07:35.974 --> 00:07:42.552 in spending. Third element, talking about effective reciprocity, we urge you to 00:07:42.618 --> 00:07:44.888 follow a strategic direction of travel. 00:07:46.028 --> 00:07:52.213 Europe needs a contract with industry. To increase support and continue carbon 00:07:52.281 --> 00:07:58.458 leakage protection, as we have proposed it, to reward those who has invested and 00:07:58.521 --> 00:08:01.693 protect those who are investing in Europe. 00:08:01.808 --> 00:08:06.374 But also to expect a commitment to Europe in return. 00:08:06.488 --> 00:08:11.889 Ultimately, this is the best competitiveness guarantee and carbon leakage 00:08:11.982 --> 00:08:16.432 protection. Reciprocity is also about level playing field. 00:08:16.508 --> 00:08:21.820 For companies making long-term investments, fragmentation is the enemy. 00:08:21.908 --> 00:08:27.642 One of the ETS's enduring strength is that it supports a level playing field across 00:08:27.710 --> 00:08:33.341 the single market and avoids a patchwork of carbon pricing approaches. 00:08:33.428 --> 00:08:39.759 That's why it's important to effectively extend this in aviation, in maritime, and 00:08:39.877 --> 00:08:45.700 in circularity. To conclude, I would like to thank the members of the Parliament for 00:08:45.753 --> 00:08:52.323 the many very good proposals tabled. Let me underline the urgency to advance on this 00:08:52.386 --> 00:08:58.195 key file in line with the One Europe, One Market roadmap to deliver certainty to our 00:08:58.268 --> 00:09:03.963 industry. We call on the Parliament to take your responsibility to deliver a timely 00:09:04.063 --> 00:09:09.818 and robust result, focus on what really matters, and work towards a reform that 00:09:09.891 --> 00:09:13.591 makes Europe fit for clean competitive future. 00:09:13.748 --> 00:09:16.934 We have a strong ETS architecture in place; 00:09:17.008 --> 00:09:22.988 no need to reinvent the whole wheel. And we stand ready to facilitate your work, and 00:09:23.048 --> 00:09:27.079 we wish the rapporteur and the shadows bon courage. 00:09:27.188 --> 00:09:28.388 Thank you. 00:09:30.728 --> 00:09:36.008 Thank you. And last, we leave back the floor to the rapporteur, Peter Lise. 00:09:37.148 --> 00:09:43.418 Yeah. Thank you to all the colleagues that made many of them quite constructive 00:09:43.516 --> 00:09:50.341 proposals. I will start with Emma Ytterell, with a new name, also from this place 00:09:50.408 --> 00:09:56.738 congratulations to your marriage. And I fully support, and that's also a priority 00:09:56.867 --> 00:10:00.137 for EPP, that we should look at the front runners. 00:10:00.188 --> 00:10:06.928 Those companies that have been investing shouldn't be punished, and these projects 00:10:06.977 --> 00:10:10.039 that were construction has already started. 00:10:10.148 --> 00:10:16.150 There is still grain in Sweden, Michael Bloss mentioned Zarstal, in Germany there 00:10:16.222 --> 00:10:24.556 are many, many others. They should really be supported with the review. 00:10:24.788 --> 00:10:32.301 However, you know, like Michael Bloss, I met the CEO of Zarstal, and he understood 00:10:32.429 --> 00:10:37.028 that this support cannot mean an unamended LRF. 00:10:37.148 --> 00:10:42.000 Now, that was their position for quite some time, but they also understand that in 00:10:42.084 --> 00:10:48.442 the chemical industry, for example, the companies will not sustain an LRF of 4. 00:10:48.548 --> 00:10:58.371 4. That's why many, many colleagues, including from Sweden, for example, Helen. 00:10:58.448 --> 00:11:04.874 Fritzon, and also Timo Völken from S&D, Manuela Ripa, and me from EPP, we put 00:11:04.928 --> 00:11:08.152 forward a specific solutions for the front runners. 00:11:08.228 --> 00:11:11.657 And we will discuss it tomorrow in the shadows meeting: 00:11:11.736 --> 00:11:16.732 how can we support these investments even if the LRF is lower? 00:11:16.808 --> 00:11:22.358 And I'm convinced it's possible, and you know, at least the CEO of this very big 00:11:22.462 --> 00:11:27.781 steel plant in Germany said it's a good way forward. 00:11:27.848 --> 00:11:33.597 And I think it is very important also to see the magnitude of these investments. 00:11:33.668 --> 00:11:37.655 What is the biggest industrial investment in Europe? 00:11:37.748 --> 00:11:41.413 That is STEGRA in Sweden. The biggest investment in Germany? 00:11:41.468 --> 00:11:46.617 That is Zarstal. So when we speak about jobs and industry, let's also talk about 00:11:46.688 --> 00:11:54.441 this front runners. Second point on the ambition level, Michael Bloss mentioned some 00:11:54.564 --> 00:12:00.731 analysis that the proposal of the commission and my proposal are not in line with 00:12:00.788 --> 00:12:08.655 the 2040 target. The commission has modeled that we even overachieve the 2040 00:12:08.761 --> 00:12:16.158 target. So we not only go for 85% domestic reduction as it's foreseen in the climate 00:12:16.216 --> 00:12:22.432 law, but to 87. You know, the reason why people think it's not enough is that they 00:12:22.546 --> 00:12:23.588 think in other 00:12:23.588 --> 00:12:30.620 sectors like road transport and buildings, we will not be able to do the same 00:12:30.728 --> 00:12:35.648 ambition. But when you really look at the facts in chemical industry, the abatement 00:12:35.708 --> 00:12:39.882 cost at least for the last percentage is 450 euros. 00:12:40.028 --> 00:12:46.072 In road transport and heating, we sometimes in prices like crisis like this, we have 00:12:46.140 --> 00:12:50.718 negative costs. So in the end, you will save money if you invest in decarbonization 00:12:50.771 --> 00:12:56.719 in these sectors. So the question is not should we overburden the industry, but how 00:12:56.768 --> 00:13:04.652 can we enable people to decarbonize also in their private home and in their car. 00:13:04.928 --> 00:13:12.051 In their road transport? It's very difficult to argue with Anja Arndt, but I still 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:20.508 try to give some arguments. You know, she mentioned RWE, a big electricity producer 00:13:20.588 --> 00:13:24.520 in Germany. I know them very well. And you know what? 00:13:24.608 --> 00:13:30.282 When there was the first discussion about weakening the ETS, the boss of RWE called 00:13:30.337 --> 00:13:33.796 me and said, "Peter, please don't crash the ETS. 00:13:33.908 --> 00:13:40.124 We need to make it survive. Our investment in renewable energy is dependent on a 00:13:40.232 --> 00:13:43.898 stable ETS, so it's the opposite of what Mrs. 00:13:43.988 --> 00:13:49.334 Arndt said. " And when it comes to the effect of Europe, you know, please study the 00:13:49.396 --> 00:13:55.077 international situation. Look at the studies of Professor Catherine Wolfram from the 00:13:55.146 --> 00:14:04.022 MIT in Massachusetts. She says that due to the CBAM, 80% of the global production of 00:14:04.114 --> 00:14:09.635 steel fertilizers and other CBAM products are already covered by the ETS. 00:14:09.728 --> 00:14:15.698 So you shouldn't look only at the European effect, but our effect on the global 00:14:15.766 --> 00:14:19.261 situation. We have to do better. That's for sure. 00:14:19.328 --> 00:14:25.326 But this calculations are just nonsense. Very important point that Radan Karnev 00:14:25.388 --> 00:14:30.308 made. You know, the elephant in the room is not ETS. 00:14:30.608 --> 00:14:35.087 It is not the ETS2. It's the energy price. 00:14:35.168 --> 00:14:40.312 Why do we have high energy prices? It's because of Putin. 00:14:40.388 --> 00:14:46.441 Because of Putin cutting the gas supply to Europe invading in the Ukraine. 00:14:46.568 --> 00:14:51.277 And it's because of Trump and the war that he started and the consequences of the 00:14:51.342 --> 00:14:56.219 street of Hormuz. And the patriots are friends of Putin and friend of Trump. 00:14:56.288 --> 00:15:00.128 And that should be spoken out loud and clear every day. 00:15:00.308 --> 00:15:05.468 They are responsible for the high energy prices. 00:15:05.888 --> 00:15:11.657 And when we look at the energy prices in Europe, no, Kadri mentioned it. 00:15:11.768 --> 00:15:17.812 Finland has a very low electricity bill. They have the same ETS like Germany, Italy, 00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:22.988 and Poland, but in Germany the price is more than twice as high. 00:15:23.048 --> 00:15:28.170 Why? Because you have decarbonized. You have nuclear and I admit it was a mistake of 00:15:28.232 --> 00:15:34.052 Germany to face our nuclear, but it's good to invest in renewables like Finland did. 00:15:34.148 --> 00:15:37.451 Portugal the same many other parts of Europe. 00:15:37.508 --> 00:15:43.636 So it's not the ETS, but it is fossil fuel dependence that brings the high energy 00:15:43.748 --> 00:15:51.117 prices. On Christoph Clairvaux, you made a very important point on the maritime and 00:15:51.248 --> 00:15:57.199 I exactly share your position. We need to make sure that all the money that maritime 00:15:57.278 --> 00:16:01.223 industry pays go back to innovation in the maritime sector. 00:16:01.328 --> 00:16:05.230 We have agreed on this years ago in an initiative report. 00:16:05.288 --> 00:16:07.752 We had this position in the last parliament. 00:16:07.808 --> 00:16:13.757 But sorry, talk to your people in S&D. When I made this proposal in the shadow 00:16:13.808 --> 00:16:17.826 meetings, your staff and Mohamed Shahib didn't support it. 00:16:17.888 --> 00:16:21.006 So talk to them. It is the right position. 00:16:21.068 --> 00:16:25.073 We are united, but we need to convince your group. 00:16:25.208 --> 00:16:29.588 The maritime sector is environmental friendly and it makes no sense to spend the 00:16:29.648 --> 00:16:36.179 money for something else than decarbonizing this sector. 00:16:36.488 --> 00:16:42.403 On Dimitris Siodras, transshipment to avoid transshipment is very important. 00:16:42.488 --> 00:16:47.512 And I'm very impressed by the maritime sector. 00:16:47.588 --> 00:16:54.931 Because they are covered already with 50% of their trips from and to Europe. 00:16:55.028 --> 00:17:00.020 And they don't complain. They just want to be protected against transshipment. 00:17:00.068 --> 00:17:04.977 And they want the money back. And that's two reasonable proposals and we should make 00:17:05.134 --> 00:17:11.035 it work. In the aviation, we have a very small extension of the scope compared to 00:17:11.089 --> 00:17:15.097 maritime and they are up in arms. So that's a bit strange. 00:17:15.188 --> 00:17:22.868 Last but not least, I come to the end. I have to echo what Emma said on ECR. 00:17:22.988 --> 00:17:27.713 You know, I want to work with ECR. You should be on the table. 00:17:27.788 --> 00:17:33.835 But with speeches like that from Ana Zalewska, how can we find common ground? 00:17:33.908 --> 00:17:37.508 So look at your ITRA colleagues. They are working constructive. 00:17:37.568 --> 00:17:40.629 They are doing compromises and not always repeating. 00:17:40.688 --> 00:17:48.768 And you know, my most difficult moment in this debate on ECS was last time and some 00:17:48.868 --> 00:17:52.018 people that are here now can witness this. 00:17:52.088 --> 00:17:57.165 Emma and others were around. We made a deal with the council, with the Czech 00:17:57.268 --> 00:18:02.502 presidency. The shadow rapporteur of ECR said it's a good deal. 00:18:02.588 --> 00:18:05.532 It was from the same party than the Czech presidency. 00:18:05.588 --> 00:18:13.598 And then you Polish delegation and others in ECR made the ECR vote a no. 00:18:13.748 --> 00:18:17.536 So there was a deal. The shadow rapporteur said it's a good deal. 00:18:17.588 --> 00:18:22.753 I support it. You delivered everything. So how can I trust ECR? 00:18:22.868 --> 00:18:25.800 When you behave like this? So that has to change. 00:18:25.868 --> 00:18:29.528 And I have some optimism when I look at the ITRA negotiations. 00:18:29.588 --> 00:18:33.440 But change your speech and be more constructive. 00:18:33.488 --> 00:18:37.500 Last but not least, now the last patriot is leaving the room. 00:18:37.568 --> 00:18:43.638 They all mentioned The far right majority. 00:18:43.748 --> 00:18:50.288 You know, sometimes it was unavoidable to bring the EPP position to the table and 00:18:50.368 --> 00:18:56.855 not look who votes in favor. This case, in this time, it is impossible. 00:18:56.948 --> 00:19:03.119 Because you know, the first sentence of the EPP position is we are in favor of the 00:19:03.201 --> 00:19:07.513 ETS. And when you look at the amendments of the patriots, their first amendment is 00:19:07.561 --> 00:19:13.538 we should kill the ETS. This won't enable any far right majority. 00:19:13.628 --> 00:19:16.042 We want to keep the ETS. We want to change it. 00:19:16.088 --> 00:19:21.236 We want to make it better. And most important is we need to work together. 00:19:21.308 --> 00:19:26.941 Everybody has to move. If we don't fix this, there will be uncertainty for the front 00:19:26.988 --> 00:19:29.468 runners and uncertainty for all the others. 00:19:29.528 --> 00:19:37.164 We need to do it and all the heads of states Roberta Metsola and Ursula von der 00:19:37.235 --> 00:19:42.786 Leyen said you finish by March next year. That's why we need to speed up. 00:19:42.848 --> 00:19:46.247 It is complicated, but delaying is no option. 00:19:46.328 --> 00:19:47.528 Thank you. 00:19:51.188 --> 00:20:00.233 Thank you. The voting envy, we'll take place the 1st of December and also in the 00:20:00.281 --> 00:20:08.236 plenary it will be the month of December. Now we have a small break we will be back 00:20:08.392 --> 00:20:11.408 at 11. With the joint envy stunt.