1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Brussels Live Transcribed and translated by AI 2 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,000 We should encourage innovation, not undermine the competitive advantage of companies 3 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,000 investing in cleaner technologies. Third, on regulatory simplification, the 4 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,510 Commission proposes an additional reporting requirement concerning the purpose of 5 00:00:02,711 --> 00:00:10,545 airport of call. Yet this formation is already relevant to determining whether a 6 00:00:10,639 --> 00:00:17,708 ship's stop qualifies as a port of call under the existing MRV framework. 7 00:00:17,768 --> 00:00:22,262 In this point, I propose deleting this additional reporting obligation, avoiding 8 00:00:22,328 --> 00:00:26,836 unnecessary duplication. Better regulations should mean more effective monitoring, 9 00:00:26,902 --> 00:00:31,565 not simply more reporting. And fourth, on competitiveness and carbon leakage, 10 00:00:31,621 --> 00:00:35,466 European shipping operates in a highly competitive global market; 11 00:00:35,528 --> 00:00:40,775 we need effective measures to prevent carbon leakage at the diversion of maritime 12 00:00:40,838 --> 00:00:45,387 traffic away from European ports, with therefore must preserve a genuine lever 13 00:00:45,444 --> 00:00:49,729 playing field and avoid placing European ports and shipping companies at a 14 00:00:49,792 --> 00:00:51,608 competitive disadvantage. Thank you. 15 00:00:52,028 --> 00:00:53,768 Thank you. For SND, Andrew Katis. 16 00:01:02,588 --> 00:01:06,188 Thank you. Thank you very much, indeed. I would like to speak in Lithuanian. 17 00:01:14,048 --> 00:01:21,302 I would like to draw attention to those colleagues who argue for the fundamental 18 00:01:21,397 --> 00:01:27,098 necessity of abolishing the ETL system. But I would like to remind them that both 19 00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:33,178 the Draghi report and the LETA report as well, I would like to draw attention to 20 00:01:33,238 --> 00:01:37,549 those colleagues who argue for the need to abolish the ETL system in principle. 21 00:01:37,613 --> 00:01:44,729 But I want to remind them that both the Draghi report, the LETA report, and the 22 00:01:44,806 --> 00:01:50,188 Ninisto report—three reports that present huge economic calculations—none of them 23 00:01:50,257 --> 00:01:56,192 recommend abandoning the ETL. On the contrary, they calculate that this is a major 24 00:01:56,251 --> 00:01:59,018 competitive advantage for the European Union. 25 00:01:59,087 --> 00:02:04,787 Next, I thank Peter Liese for his work, but I also want to remind everyone that 26 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:12,168 pollution claims the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, and when we talk 27 00:02:12,231 --> 00:02:17,660 about climate change, we must consider how many excess deaths from climate change 28 00:02:17,709 --> 00:02:19,840 there are in the European Union this year. 29 00:02:19,910 --> 00:02:25,044 Calculate the human losses. If you do not understand that climate change 30 00:02:25,113 --> 00:02:29,837 comprehensively affects the quality of life of our people, labour productivity, 31 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,612 jobs, and reduces our demographic position, then perhaps you will understand how 32 00:02:34,678 --> 00:02:38,972 important it is to maintain ETL as a comprehensive measure not only for combating 33 00:02:39,023 --> 00:02:43,627 climate change, not only for competitiveness, but also for protecting human lives. 34 00:02:43,675 --> 00:02:47,366 We must once again turn our attention to that human capital which needs to be 35 00:02:47,409 --> 00:02:51,624 preserved. Without it, the European Union will not be able to maintain any 36 00:02:51,696 --> 00:02:56,648 competitiveness. We need to ensure that as many people as possible are protected 37 00:02:56,715 --> 00:03:00,532 from pollution and harmful substances. This is also about studies. 38 00:03:00,588 --> 00:03:04,640 This is health economics. The ETL is also active here, so to all those who argue 39 00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:08,048 against it, I would like to suggest reading the statistics and real numbers. 40 00:03:14,228 --> 00:03:17,288 Thank you. Our last speaker is Ference from Patchets. 41 00:03:18,488 --> 00:03:20,048 Thank you, Chair. I will speak in Hungarian. 42 00:03:21,848 --> 00:03:26,236 Dear Colleagues! On the ETS reform, it is not enough to merely talk about a few 43 00:03:26,288 --> 00:03:30,668 technical adjustments. We have already held several debates on this topic, but the 44 00:03:30,714 --> 00:03:34,627 situation fundamentally has not changed. Honourable colleagues! 45 00:03:34,682 --> 00:03:39,221 With regard to the ETS reform, it is not enough to talk merely about a few technical 46 00:03:39,263 --> 00:03:44,886 amendments. We have already held several debates on this topic, but the situation 47 00:03:44,953 --> 00:03:50,135 has not fundamentally changed. Reading the proposal, several parts of the system are 48 00:03:50,189 --> 00:03:53,324 affected. However, one issue is conspicuously avoided: 49 00:03:53,384 --> 00:03:58,988 as the EPP representative put it earlier, the elephant in the room. 50 00:03:59,057 --> 00:04:03,576 And that is the ETS2, or the carbon tax. In our opinion, the ETS2 should be 51 00:04:03,633 --> 00:04:08,266 completely abolished, as its costs will be borne by European households. 52 00:04:08,328 --> 00:04:13,070 This carbon tax would impose a disproportionate burden on households, particularly 53 00:04:13,143 --> 00:04:17,704 in the areas of heating and transport. In light of current energy and fuel prices, 54 00:04:17,748 --> 00:04:21,144 we simply cannot allow this system to enter into force. 55 00:04:21,194 --> 00:04:23,714 And I would also like to ask the EPP a question: 56 00:04:23,770 --> 00:04:29,660 we have heard here that several of their Members also demand the abolition of ETS2. 57 00:04:29,742 --> 00:04:34,282 This is welcome. But then why does not every delegation of the EPP, particularly 58 00:04:34,344 --> 00:04:38,121 those coming from Central Europe, represent this position? 59 00:04:38,172 --> 00:04:42,325 It is also your responsibility to save the people living in our countries from 60 00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:43,580 further burdens. 61 00:04:43,688 --> 00:04:44,888 Thank you. 62 00:04:50,768 --> 00:04:56,626 Okay, so now for the Commission. We give the floor to Mette Quinn, Head of Unit 63 00:04:56,752 --> 00:04:59,648 DigiClima B1. You have the floor for five minutes. 64 00:05:05,348 --> 00:05:12,850 Thank you very much. Delivering a five-minute reaction to more than 3,000 amendments 65 00:05:12,952 --> 00:05:18,315 is challenging. To say the least. But following this debate, I would like to 66 00:05:18,368 --> 00:05:24,638 highlight three things. First, the need for a stable, credible, and predictable 67 00:05:24,692 --> 00:05:31,610 framework for the EU ETS. This is essential for business investment planning and for 68 00:05:31,718 --> 00:05:37,576 decarbonization. This means a decarbonization pathway that is fully in line with the 69 00:05:37,628 --> 00:05:42,216 climate law and delivers on its 2040 target. 70 00:05:42,368 --> 00:05:47,840 Also, avoiding more costly and complex efforts outside the EU ETS. 71 00:05:48,068 --> 00:05:53,104 This is exactly what the Commission proposal delivers, based on targets and 72 00:05:53,182 --> 00:06:00,404 flexibilities set in the climate law. The cap in 2040 is based on economic modeling 73 00:06:00,493 --> 00:06:07,481 for a cost-effective distribution between the EU ETS and the non-ETS sectors. 74 00:06:07,688 --> 00:06:13,218 This also means safeguarding the ETS as a clear, transparent, and robust 75 00:06:13,303 --> 00:06:20,248 market-based system that is key to its success, to market participants, investment 76 00:06:20,314 --> 00:06:24,199 predictability, and to cost effectiveness. 77 00:06:24,308 --> 00:06:28,523 And it means stability and clarity from the start. 78 00:06:28,628 --> 00:06:34,193 No change in conditions all the time. So that the future ETS continues to be a 79 00:06:34,268 --> 00:06:39,081 long-term framework for industrial decision-making. 80 00:06:39,188 --> 00:06:42,851 Second, we welcome the very clear support from the Parliament to the solid 81 00:06:42,903 --> 00:06:46,425 investment and innovation drive in the proposal. 82 00:06:46,508 --> 00:06:51,806 A strong industrial decarbonization bank is crucial to support industry accelerate 83 00:06:51,867 --> 00:06:55,721 low-carbon investments and enhance competitiveness. 84 00:06:55,808 --> 00:07:02,931 We would therefore like to stress the need to maintain the proposed budget so it 85 00:07:03,039 --> 00:07:08,283 remains commensurate with the challenge that we are facing and to strike the balance 86 00:07:08,348 --> 00:07:15,395 between funding the best projects avoid fragmentation administrative simplicity and 87 00:07:15,468 --> 00:07:22,571 speed as well as solidarity. We also thank you for the strong support for more 88 00:07:22,628 --> 00:07:29,412 targeted spending of national ETS revenues for the ETS decarbonization. 89 00:07:29,528 --> 00:07:35,847 And we remind of the importance of balancing continued solidarity with reciprocity 90 00:07:35,974 --> 00:07:42,552 in spending. Third element, talking about effective reciprocity, we urge you to 91 00:07:42,618 --> 00:07:44,888 follow a strategic direction of travel. 92 00:07:46,028 --> 00:07:52,213 Europe needs a contract with industry. To increase support and continue carbon 93 00:07:52,281 --> 00:07:58,458 leakage protection, as we have proposed it, to reward those who has invested and 94 00:07:58,521 --> 00:08:01,693 protect those who are investing in Europe. 95 00:08:01,808 --> 00:08:06,374 But also to expect a commitment to Europe in return. 96 00:08:06,488 --> 00:08:11,889 Ultimately, this is the best competitiveness guarantee and carbon leakage 97 00:08:11,982 --> 00:08:16,432 protection. Reciprocity is also about level playing field. 98 00:08:16,508 --> 00:08:21,820 For companies making long-term investments, fragmentation is the enemy. 99 00:08:21,908 --> 00:08:27,642 One of the ETS's enduring strength is that it supports a level playing field across 100 00:08:27,710 --> 00:08:33,341 the single market and avoids a patchwork of carbon pricing approaches. 101 00:08:33,428 --> 00:08:39,759 That's why it's important to effectively extend this in aviation, in maritime, and 102 00:08:39,877 --> 00:08:45,700 in circularity. To conclude, I would like to thank the members of the Parliament for 103 00:08:45,753 --> 00:08:52,323 the many very good proposals tabled. Let me underline the urgency to advance on this 104 00:08:52,386 --> 00:08:58,195 key file in line with the One Europe, One Market roadmap to deliver certainty to our 105 00:08:58,268 --> 00:09:03,963 industry. We call on the Parliament to take your responsibility to deliver a timely 106 00:09:04,063 --> 00:09:09,818 and robust result, focus on what really matters, and work towards a reform that 107 00:09:09,891 --> 00:09:13,591 makes Europe fit for clean competitive future. 108 00:09:13,748 --> 00:09:16,934 We have a strong ETS architecture in place; 109 00:09:17,008 --> 00:09:22,988 no need to reinvent the whole wheel. And we stand ready to facilitate your work, and 110 00:09:23,048 --> 00:09:27,079 we wish the rapporteur and the shadows bon courage. 111 00:09:27,188 --> 00:09:28,388 Thank you. 112 00:09:30,728 --> 00:09:36,008 Thank you. And last, we leave back the floor to the rapporteur, Peter Lise. 113 00:09:37,148 --> 00:09:43,418 Yeah. Thank you to all the colleagues that made many of them quite constructive 114 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:50,341 proposals. I will start with Emma Ytterell, with a new name, also from this place 115 00:09:50,408 --> 00:09:56,738 congratulations to your marriage. And I fully support, and that's also a priority 116 00:09:56,867 --> 00:10:00,137 for EPP, that we should look at the front runners. 117 00:10:00,188 --> 00:10:06,928 Those companies that have been investing shouldn't be punished, and these projects 118 00:10:06,977 --> 00:10:10,039 that were construction has already started. 119 00:10:10,148 --> 00:10:16,150 There is still grain in Sweden, Michael Bloss mentioned Zarstal, in Germany there 120 00:10:16,222 --> 00:10:24,556 are many, many others. They should really be supported with the review. 121 00:10:24,788 --> 00:10:32,301 However, you know, like Michael Bloss, I met the CEO of Zarstal, and he understood 122 00:10:32,429 --> 00:10:37,028 that this support cannot mean an unamended LRF. 123 00:10:37,148 --> 00:10:42,000 Now, that was their position for quite some time, but they also understand that in 124 00:10:42,084 --> 00:10:48,442 the chemical industry, for example, the companies will not sustain an LRF of 4. 125 00:10:48,548 --> 00:10:58,371 4. That's why many, many colleagues, including from Sweden, for example, Helen. 126 00:10:58,448 --> 00:11:04,874 Fritzon, and also Timo Völken from S&D, Manuela Ripa, and me from EPP, we put 127 00:11:04,928 --> 00:11:08,152 forward a specific solutions for the front runners. 128 00:11:08,228 --> 00:11:11,657 And we will discuss it tomorrow in the shadows meeting: 129 00:11:11,736 --> 00:11:16,732 how can we support these investments even if the LRF is lower? 130 00:11:16,808 --> 00:11:22,358 And I'm convinced it's possible, and you know, at least the CEO of this very big 131 00:11:22,462 --> 00:11:27,781 steel plant in Germany said it's a good way forward. 132 00:11:27,848 --> 00:11:33,597 And I think it is very important also to see the magnitude of these investments. 133 00:11:33,668 --> 00:11:37,655 What is the biggest industrial investment in Europe? 134 00:11:37,748 --> 00:11:41,413 That is STEGRA in Sweden. The biggest investment in Germany? 135 00:11:41,468 --> 00:11:46,617 That is Zarstal. So when we speak about jobs and industry, let's also talk about 136 00:11:46,688 --> 00:11:54,441 this front runners. Second point on the ambition level, Michael Bloss mentioned some 137 00:11:54,564 --> 00:12:00,731 analysis that the proposal of the commission and my proposal are not in line with 138 00:12:00,788 --> 00:12:08,655 the 2040 target. The commission has modeled that we even overachieve the 2040 139 00:12:08,761 --> 00:12:16,158 target. So we not only go for 85% domestic reduction as it's foreseen in the climate 140 00:12:16,216 --> 00:12:22,432 law, but to 87. You know, the reason why people think it's not enough is that they 141 00:12:22,546 --> 00:12:23,588 think in other 142 00:12:23,588 --> 00:12:30,620 sectors like road transport and buildings, we will not be able to do the same 143 00:12:30,728 --> 00:12:35,648 ambition. But when you really look at the facts in chemical industry, the abatement 144 00:12:35,708 --> 00:12:39,882 cost at least for the last percentage is 450 euros. 145 00:12:40,028 --> 00:12:46,072 In road transport and heating, we sometimes in prices like crisis like this, we have 146 00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:50,718 negative costs. So in the end, you will save money if you invest in decarbonization 147 00:12:50,771 --> 00:12:56,719 in these sectors. So the question is not should we overburden the industry, but how 148 00:12:56,768 --> 00:13:04,652 can we enable people to decarbonize also in their private home and in their car. 149 00:13:04,928 --> 00:13:12,051 In their road transport? It's very difficult to argue with Anja Arndt, but I still 150 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:20,508 try to give some arguments. You know, she mentioned RWE, a big electricity producer 151 00:13:20,588 --> 00:13:24,520 in Germany. I know them very well. And you know what? 152 00:13:24,608 --> 00:13:30,282 When there was the first discussion about weakening the ETS, the boss of RWE called 153 00:13:30,337 --> 00:13:33,796 me and said, "Peter, please don't crash the ETS. 154 00:13:33,908 --> 00:13:40,124 We need to make it survive. Our investment in renewable energy is dependent on a 155 00:13:40,232 --> 00:13:43,898 stable ETS, so it's the opposite of what Mrs. 156 00:13:43,988 --> 00:13:49,334 Arndt said. " And when it comes to the effect of Europe, you know, please study the 157 00:13:49,396 --> 00:13:55,077 international situation. Look at the studies of Professor Catherine Wolfram from the 158 00:13:55,146 --> 00:14:04,022 MIT in Massachusetts. She says that due to the CBAM, 80% of the global production of 159 00:14:04,114 --> 00:14:09,635 steel fertilizers and other CBAM products are already covered by the ETS. 160 00:14:09,728 --> 00:14:15,698 So you shouldn't look only at the European effect, but our effect on the global 161 00:14:15,766 --> 00:14:19,261 situation. We have to do better. That's for sure. 162 00:14:19,328 --> 00:14:25,326 But this calculations are just nonsense. Very important point that Radan Karnev 163 00:14:25,388 --> 00:14:30,308 made. You know, the elephant in the room is not ETS. 164 00:14:30,608 --> 00:14:35,087 It is not the ETS2. It's the energy price. 165 00:14:35,168 --> 00:14:40,312 Why do we have high energy prices? It's because of Putin. 166 00:14:40,388 --> 00:14:46,441 Because of Putin cutting the gas supply to Europe invading in the Ukraine. 167 00:14:46,568 --> 00:14:51,277 And it's because of Trump and the war that he started and the consequences of the 168 00:14:51,342 --> 00:14:56,219 street of Hormuz. And the patriots are friends of Putin and friend of Trump. 169 00:14:56,288 --> 00:15:00,128 And that should be spoken out loud and clear every day. 170 00:15:00,308 --> 00:15:05,468 They are responsible for the high energy prices. 171 00:15:05,888 --> 00:15:11,657 And when we look at the energy prices in Europe, no, Kadri mentioned it. 172 00:15:11,768 --> 00:15:17,812 Finland has a very low electricity bill. They have the same ETS like Germany, Italy, 173 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,988 and Poland, but in Germany the price is more than twice as high. 174 00:15:23,048 --> 00:15:28,170 Why? Because you have decarbonized. You have nuclear and I admit it was a mistake of 175 00:15:28,232 --> 00:15:34,052 Germany to face our nuclear, but it's good to invest in renewables like Finland did. 176 00:15:34,148 --> 00:15:37,451 Portugal the same many other parts of Europe. 177 00:15:37,508 --> 00:15:43,636 So it's not the ETS, but it is fossil fuel dependence that brings the high energy 178 00:15:43,748 --> 00:15:51,117 prices. On Christoph Clairvaux, you made a very important point on the maritime and 179 00:15:51,248 --> 00:15:57,199 I exactly share your position. We need to make sure that all the money that maritime 180 00:15:57,278 --> 00:16:01,223 industry pays go back to innovation in the maritime sector. 181 00:16:01,328 --> 00:16:05,230 We have agreed on this years ago in an initiative report. 182 00:16:05,288 --> 00:16:07,752 We had this position in the last parliament. 183 00:16:07,808 --> 00:16:13,757 But sorry, talk to your people in S&D. When I made this proposal in the shadow 184 00:16:13,808 --> 00:16:17,826 meetings, your staff and Mohamed Shahib didn't support it. 185 00:16:17,888 --> 00:16:21,006 So talk to them. It is the right position. 186 00:16:21,068 --> 00:16:25,073 We are united, but we need to convince your group. 187 00:16:25,208 --> 00:16:29,588 The maritime sector is environmental friendly and it makes no sense to spend the 188 00:16:29,648 --> 00:16:36,179 money for something else than decarbonizing this sector. 189 00:16:36,488 --> 00:16:42,403 On Dimitris Siodras, transshipment to avoid transshipment is very important. 190 00:16:42,488 --> 00:16:47,512 And I'm very impressed by the maritime sector. 191 00:16:47,588 --> 00:16:54,931 Because they are covered already with 50% of their trips from and to Europe. 192 00:16:55,028 --> 00:17:00,020 And they don't complain. They just want to be protected against transshipment. 193 00:17:00,068 --> 00:17:04,977 And they want the money back. And that's two reasonable proposals and we should make 194 00:17:05,134 --> 00:17:11,035 it work. In the aviation, we have a very small extension of the scope compared to 195 00:17:11,089 --> 00:17:15,097 maritime and they are up in arms. So that's a bit strange. 196 00:17:15,188 --> 00:17:22,868 Last but not least, I come to the end. I have to echo what Emma said on ECR. 197 00:17:22,988 --> 00:17:27,713 You know, I want to work with ECR. You should be on the table. 198 00:17:27,788 --> 00:17:33,835 But with speeches like that from Ana Zalewska, how can we find common ground? 199 00:17:33,908 --> 00:17:37,508 So look at your ITRA colleagues. They are working constructive. 200 00:17:37,568 --> 00:17:40,629 They are doing compromises and not always repeating. 201 00:17:40,688 --> 00:17:48,768 And you know, my most difficult moment in this debate on ECS was last time and some 202 00:17:48,868 --> 00:17:52,018 people that are here now can witness this. 203 00:17:52,088 --> 00:17:57,165 Emma and others were around. We made a deal with the council, with the Czech 204 00:17:57,268 --> 00:18:02,502 presidency. The shadow rapporteur of ECR said it's a good deal. 205 00:18:02,588 --> 00:18:05,532 It was from the same party than the Czech presidency. 206 00:18:05,588 --> 00:18:13,598 And then you Polish delegation and others in ECR made the ECR vote a no. 207 00:18:13,748 --> 00:18:17,536 So there was a deal. The shadow rapporteur said it's a good deal. 208 00:18:17,588 --> 00:18:22,753 I support it. You delivered everything. So how can I trust ECR? 209 00:18:22,868 --> 00:18:25,800 When you behave like this? So that has to change. 210 00:18:25,868 --> 00:18:29,528 And I have some optimism when I look at the ITRA negotiations. 211 00:18:29,588 --> 00:18:33,440 But change your speech and be more constructive. 212 00:18:33,488 --> 00:18:37,500 Last but not least, now the last patriot is leaving the room. 213 00:18:37,568 --> 00:18:43,638 They all mentioned The far right majority. 214 00:18:43,748 --> 00:18:50,288 You know, sometimes it was unavoidable to bring the EPP position to the table and 215 00:18:50,368 --> 00:18:56,855 not look who votes in favor. This case, in this time, it is impossible. 216 00:18:56,948 --> 00:19:03,119 Because you know, the first sentence of the EPP position is we are in favor of the 217 00:19:03,201 --> 00:19:07,513 ETS. And when you look at the amendments of the patriots, their first amendment is 218 00:19:07,561 --> 00:19:13,538 we should kill the ETS. This won't enable any far right majority. 219 00:19:13,628 --> 00:19:16,042 We want to keep the ETS. We want to change it. 220 00:19:16,088 --> 00:19:21,236 We want to make it better. And most important is we need to work together. 221 00:19:21,308 --> 00:19:26,941 Everybody has to move. If we don't fix this, there will be uncertainty for the front 222 00:19:26,988 --> 00:19:29,468 runners and uncertainty for all the others. 223 00:19:29,528 --> 00:19:37,164 We need to do it and all the heads of states Roberta Metsola and Ursula von der 224 00:19:37,235 --> 00:19:42,786 Leyen said you finish by March next year. That's why we need to speed up. 225 00:19:42,848 --> 00:19:46,247 It is complicated, but delaying is no option. 226 00:19:46,328 --> 00:19:47,528 Thank you. 227 00:19:51,188 --> 00:20:00,233 Thank you. The voting envy, we'll take place the 1st of December and also in the 228 00:20:00,281 --> 00:20:08,236 plenary it will be the month of December. Now we have a small break we will be back 229 00:20:08,392 --> 00:20:11,408 at 11. With the joint envy stunt.