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EU AI Act, Article 50. 00:00:00.007 --> 00:00:03.720 So, good evening, everyone, and welcome to this press conference following the first 00:00:03.761 --> 00:00:06.498 meeting of the Energy Council under the Irish Presidency. 00:00:06.547 --> 00:00:10.437 We're joined here by Darryl Bryan, Minister for Climate Energy and the Environment; 00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:13.325 Timmy Dooley, Minister of State at the Department of Climate Energy and the 00:00:13.367 --> 00:00:16.353 Environment with special responsibility for the marine; 00:00:16.438 --> 00:00:20.063 and Dan Jørgensen, European Commissioner for Energy and Housing. 00:00:20.107 --> 00:00:23.278 So I'm first going to give the floor to Minister O'Brien, then Minister Dooley, and 00:00:23.321 --> 00:00:24.727 then the Commissioner. Minister O'Brien. 00:00:28.987 --> 00:00:33.569 Should I go over Tasha Gromal? Good. Patter, good afternoon, everyone, and Dan, I'd 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:39.090 like to thank you and the member states for a really productive first meeting of the 00:00:39.127 --> 00:00:43.891 Energy Council under the Irish Presidency today, and a sincere thank you for your 00:00:44.029 --> 00:00:50.218 engagement today. This morning we had a very constructive first discussion on the 00:00:50.275 --> 00:00:56.095 network charges proposal, the ongoing conflict, obviously, in the Middle East is a 00:00:56.167 --> 00:01:02.489 stark reminder that EU electrification is an economic and security imperative. 00:01:02.587 --> 00:01:07.738 The network charges file will help accelerate our EU-wide electrification agenda, 00:01:07.814 --> 00:01:12.708 and will help make Europe the world's first electric continent. 00:01:12.787 --> 00:01:18.830 Its goal is to help us optimize the use of new and existing grid infrastructure. 00:01:18.907 --> 00:01:23.585 We'd be very open to exchange this morning, and we are certainly going to take on 00:01:23.647 --> 00:01:28.148 board the views of member states as we move this proposal forward to the December 00:01:28.207 --> 00:01:35.388 Council meeting. It's important that we agree on the real impact that this could 00:01:35.445 --> 00:01:39.764 have for our citizens and our ambition, as I said, is to reach a general approach on 00:01:39.811 --> 00:01:43.299 network charges at the December Energy Council. 00:01:43.387 --> 00:01:47.764 I'd also like to point to the importance of the European Grids package to the EU's 00:01:47.827 --> 00:01:53.617 electrification agenda. We need to deploy grid infrastructure to realize our 00:01:53.692 --> 00:01:59.449 ambition for a more electrified, a more efficient energy system, which will put 00:01:59.527 --> 00:02:04.662 downward pressure on prices borne by our citizens and our businesses. 00:02:04.747 --> 00:02:08.611 Negotiations with the European Parliament on the grids package are well underway, 00:02:08.666 --> 00:02:12.960 and we do intend to reach final agreement under our presidency. 00:02:13.087 --> 00:02:20.021 We also had a valuable exchange of views on energy security, with a view of the 00:02:20.167 --> 00:02:25.293 looking at the upcoming winter in particular, but beyond that too, and I was really 00:02:25.355 --> 00:02:30.173 glad to have Darren the Moldovan Minister for Energy and that he accepted the 00:02:30.227 --> 00:02:34.678 invitation of the Irish Presidency to join the discussion today and for him to 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:39.318 present to member states and colleagues around the experience in Moldova and the 00:02:39.385 --> 00:02:44.994 risks to that they are enduring every single day of the week, and every week of the 00:02:45.067 --> 00:02:46.267 year. 00:02:46.327 --> 00:02:51.929 Regrettably, our Ukrainian Minister Denis was not able to join the meeting because 00:02:51.985 --> 00:02:55.798 of Russian attacks against Ukrainian energy infrastructure. 00:02:55.867 --> 00:03:01.404 And I would like to once again express the EU's full solidarity with the people of 00:03:01.468 --> 00:03:04.657 Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression. 00:03:04.747 --> 00:03:08.964 Russia's war against Ukraine and the ongoing crisis in the Middle East and the 00:03:09.007 --> 00:03:13.378 climate-related risks have driven up energy costs all across Europe. 00:03:13.447 --> 00:03:17.372 We'd have very good exchange amongst ministers following up on the discussion held 00:03:17.425 --> 00:03:24.191 by our leaders earlier this month. We also had a very useful discussion, I thought, 00:03:24.318 --> 00:03:31.436 on the post-2030 framework, focusing in on energy targets and this was an important 00:03:31.502 --> 00:03:35.717 opportunity for member states and colleagues to articulate their priorities for the 00:03:35.770 --> 00:03:40.597 framework as the Commission works to develop and finalize the proposal, which Dan, 00:03:40.642 --> 00:03:44.831 our Commissioner, has confirmed will now be published in Quarter One of next year. 00:03:44.887 --> 00:03:49.364 You will have seen from today's Council that the Irish Presidency is focused on 00:03:49.442 --> 00:03:53.989 helping Europe deliver clean and affordable energy for our citizens. 00:03:54.067 --> 00:03:57.180 This is a shared agenda of the European Union. 00:03:57.247 --> 00:04:02.231 We have important work to do as we prepare for the next Energy Council in December, 00:04:02.287 --> 00:04:07.148 and I'm very, very grateful for the support and engagement of the member states 00:04:07.207 --> 00:04:10.390 indeed of the Commission and of the European Parliament. 00:04:10.447 --> 00:04:13.766 So with that, I'd like to hand over to my colleague Minister Dooley, who will take 00:04:13.810 --> 00:04:15.247 you through the lunchtime discussion. 00:04:16.807 --> 00:04:21.851 Thanks very much, Darryl and Dan. Great to have been part of the discussions today. 00:04:21.907 --> 00:04:26.122 Over lunch we had a constructive discussion on how investment roadmaps could help 00:04:26.172 --> 00:04:30.927 the EU to deliver the very significant investments that's needed for the energy 00:04:30.992 --> 00:04:35.245 sector in the years ahead. Now, of course, as part of the reform of the upcoming 00:04:35.287 --> 00:04:39.910 governance regulation, ministers reflected on how investment roadmaps could provide 00:04:39.967 --> 00:04:44.185 clearer signals to investors and also to help member states identify the investments 00:04:44.227 --> 00:04:49.520 needed for energy transition. The discussions focused on the importance of 00:04:49.567 --> 00:04:54.612 simplification looking at how these roadmaps can provide clear and accessible 00:04:54.668 --> 00:04:59.075 information for both investors and member states, and while retaining the key data 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:04.761 and milestones needed to track progress, the discussions of course goes to the heart 00:05:04.819 --> 00:05:07.923 of the Irish Presidency theme of competitiveness. 00:05:07.987 --> 00:05:12.545 Clearer and more predictable investment planning can help mobilize investment while 00:05:12.607 --> 00:05:16.622 strengthening the clean energy transition and Europe's competitiveness, and it was 00:05:16.663 --> 00:05:21.607 very clear from the discussion that member states recognized the importance of legal 00:05:21.667 --> 00:05:27.979 certainty and good governance to ensure that investment was protected and was that 00:05:28.048 --> 00:05:32.410 the opportunities were attractive to the wider investment community. 00:05:32.467 --> 00:05:33.667 Thank you very much. 00:05:39.367 --> 00:05:48.181 Thank you. Thank you, ministers. I agree that we've had a very good day. 00:05:48.367 --> 00:05:57.685 There's no doubt that. Ministers from all member states know that we are facing a 00:05:57.801 --> 00:06:06.960 difficult winter. The crisis that we're in right now, due to the situation in the 00:06:07.068 --> 00:06:15.607 Middle East, means that we are looking at very high prices of both gas and oil 00:06:15.754 --> 00:06:25.125 products, we. Do not expect the security of supply issue as such but for the 00:06:25.177 --> 00:06:29.955 citizens that are struggling to pay their bills that might not matter. 00:06:30.067 --> 00:06:34.965 If you are not able to pay your gas bill, it doesn't really matter how much gas is 00:06:35.133 --> 00:06:44.100 out there so we need to take this extremely serious and this is also why we today 00:06:44.234 --> 00:06:50.467 amongst other things discussed what can actually be done also in the short term and 00:06:50.567 --> 00:06:57.680 things can be done. So there's the possibility of course of using subsidies if 00:06:57.746 --> 00:07:05.791 member states choose to subsidize fossils which I understand that sometimes can be 00:07:05.876 --> 00:07:14.259 necessary we agreed at these measures needs to be targeted and temporary I think 00:07:14.307 --> 00:07:19.505 it's also fair to say that there's a clear understanding in the room amongst 00:07:19.584 --> 00:07:24.350 ministers that supporting efforts that are also to the benefit of our long-term 00:07:24.431 --> 00:07:30.792 transition is very beneficial so any measures that has to do with electrification 00:07:30.847 --> 00:07:37.424 moving away from gas boilers, oil boilers into heat pumps electric vehicles instead 00:07:37.469 --> 00:07:44.672 of combustion engine cars and so forth this can really mean a lot also on the short 00:07:44.802 --> 00:07:56.887 term now on the question of diesel um. We are in the process of stabilizing the 00:07:56.977 --> 00:08:02.124 diesel markets as best we can as winters begin today. 00:08:02.167 --> 00:08:06.772 We had a very important discussion on the state of play of the oil stock release EU 00:08:06.824 --> 00:08:11.739 member states have reaffirmed their commitment to an accelerated release of 42.6 00:08:11.822 --> 00:08:18.150 million barrels from strategic reserves over the next months and around half of this 00:08:18.247 --> 00:08:26.047 will be diesel. We of course also discussed the situation in Ukraine unfortunately 00:08:26.107 --> 00:08:33.385 we are looking into a winter again that will be very harsh with Russia keeping 00:08:33.487 --> 00:08:40.360 unfortunately the focus on attacking energy infrastructure in the most brutal way 00:08:40.484 --> 00:08:46.524 and we stand firm in our support for Ukraine both technically but obviously of 00:08:46.578 --> 00:08:47.707 course also 00:08:47.707 --> 00:08:52.557 financially to rebuild and secure their energy sector. 00:08:52.627 --> 00:08:53.827 Thank you. 00:08:56.887 --> 00:08:59.734 Thank you very much, Commissioner, and ministers. 00:08:59.767 --> 00:09:03.731 So I'm going to open up the floor to questions from the room and online as well. 00:09:03.787 --> 00:09:07.794 It's possible please state your name and your media outlet. 00:09:07.927 --> 00:09:09.127 Fabio. 00:09:11.287 --> 00:09:15.558 Yes. Hi. Thank you for the floor. This is Fabio Napoli for the Italian News Agency 00:09:15.607 --> 00:09:25.377 Public Policy. I got a question on metane regulation even if it's an off topic I 00:09:25.453 --> 00:09:34.125 would like to know from the minister O'Brien since the parliament already voted for. 00:09:34.207 --> 00:09:40.615 Three years postponement and here in the council there are two block one asking for 00:09:40.713 --> 00:09:47.916 one year and one another for three years what can be the landing zone for the 00:09:48.007 --> 00:09:55.365 commission. I would like to know if you are happy with the three years postponement 00:09:55.442 --> 00:10:02.642 and if the college is later are going to agree on a two years or three years if the 00:10:02.712 --> 00:10:05.596 commission is ready to withdraw its proposal. 00:10:05.647 --> 00:10:06.847 Thank you. 00:10:09.727 --> 00:10:14.448 Thanks, Fabian. Firstly just to state the obvious the time is of the essence on this 00:10:14.494 --> 00:10:18.678 because the regulations as previously agreed will come into force from January of 00:10:18.727 --> 00:10:23.603 next year. So there is a lot of work going on in that regard to try to find a 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:28.888 workable way forward that will gain that will gain agreement. 00:10:28.987 --> 00:10:32.974 Obviously we're not there yet and we're not going to discuss that those elements you 00:10:33.030 --> 00:10:39.360 know here publicly but I think there is a desire to find a workable compromise 00:10:39.474 --> 00:10:44.802 noting obviously the vote of the parliament as well but work is ongoing. 00:10:44.887 --> 00:10:50.952 I think we want to really come back next week by the 6th of November actually and 00:10:51.007 --> 00:10:57.222 we've had discussions with our own team here in Luxembourg and indeed right the way 00:10:57.285 --> 00:11:02.755 through and in Brussels in that regard. So time is of the essence if there is to be 00:11:02.827 --> 00:11:07.521 an agreement on this which we obviously will work as hard as we can in the Irish 00:11:07.558 --> 00:11:09.614 presidency to assist and make sure that that happens. 00:11:09.667 --> 00:11:10.867 Commissioner? 00:11:12.247 --> 00:11:20.297 So my opinion is still of course that the proposal that we in the commission put 00:11:20.383 --> 00:11:27.626 forward is. Adequate with regards to securing the situation in the coming winter. 00:11:27.727 --> 00:11:33.451 Hopefully a year from now will be in a completely different situation so I would 00:11:33.514 --> 00:11:38.726 very much still argue that one year is the right balance to find also with regards 00:11:38.792 --> 00:11:44.563 to the overall ambition of legislation that we're actually proud of that will help 00:11:44.674 --> 00:11:47.047 us fight methane emissions. 00:11:49.327 --> 00:11:51.367 Thank you. Next I have Ian. 00:11:58.987 --> 00:12:01.567 Hello Ian Johnson from the Financial Times. 00:12:01.627 --> 00:12:06.416 Thanks very much for taking the time. Question to both Minister O'Brien and 00:12:06.513 --> 00:12:14.268 Commissioner Jorgensen. In the text the discussions around the taxation proposal are 00:12:14.382 --> 00:12:19.701 of the network charges package there was a clear rejection from many member states. 00:12:19.747 --> 00:12:25.930 Does that provision now seem dead to you in this proposal? 00:12:26.047 --> 00:12:33.330 And secondly on the particularly to Commissioner Jorgensen on the stock release 00:12:33.427 --> 00:12:40.786 discussions of 42.6 million barrels to be released by the 15th of January that's 00:12:40.863 --> 00:12:48.327 about four days worth of EU oil use. Do you think that will realistically bring down 00:12:48.369 --> 00:12:50.527 prices for consumers and businesses? 00:12:53.227 --> 00:12:57.754 Thank you Ian. I'll take the network charges piece first and as I mentioned in my 00:12:57.812 --> 00:13:02.136 opening statement and I said to colleagues again today our absolute desire is to get 00:13:02.198 --> 00:13:08.592 network charges back at the December council energy council meeting for agreement to 00:13:08.647 --> 00:13:12.208 reach a general a general approach on that and I think today was really important 00:13:12.247 --> 00:13:16.132 that it was the first time kind of formally in the room that people were able to 00:13:16.183 --> 00:13:21.918 articulate their their own positions on that and as I said to colleagues today we'll 00:13:21.984 --> 00:13:27.692 reflect on that working with the commission taking on board the the quite in some 00:13:27.745 --> 00:13:31.064 instances forthright views that were put forward from some member states and that's 00:13:31.098 --> 00:13:34.948 fine and that's where that's we're there for but I think it is acknowledged to be 00:13:35.022 --> 00:13:41.084 fair that it is critically important that we move network charges forward so we'll 00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:45.273 be working over the coming weeks on that having taken into account the views of 00:13:45.346 --> 00:13:50.323 member states I wouldn't say anything is dead or off the table or anything like that 00:13:50.371 --> 00:13:54.164 at all at this stage it's just important that we reflect and as presidency as I said 00:13:54.197 --> 00:13:57.871 that we're in a constructive way that we actually move this forward because we must 00:13:57.967 --> 00:14:02.395 I think when people in fairness if you look at the desire they're in the room even 00:14:02.452 --> 00:14:06.621 though people had certain different maybe coming from things from different angles 00:14:06.667 --> 00:14:11.781 there was an absolute desire amongst ministers there in the room to move this file 00:14:11.830 --> 00:14:15.739 forward and we will do everything we can to get this back in December for general 00:14:15.787 --> 00:14:16.987 approach. 00:14:18.487 --> 00:14:25.972 Well I will certainly continue to to argue that lowering taxes on electricity is the 00:14:26.140 --> 00:14:37.507 right way to go. Member states are asking the commission for ideas and guidance in. 00:14:37.627 --> 00:14:42.561 A situation that is very difficult how can we lower prices what can we do what can 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:48.327 the European Union do well this is an example of something we can do that will work 00:14:48.405 --> 00:14:53.197 short term and will also help our long-term strategy. 00:14:53.287 --> 00:14:59.748 If you lower the prices of electricity it will immediately be seen on the bills of 00:14:59.836 --> 00:15:07.927 our consumers citizens and companies alike and it will give incentives for those who 00:15:08.047 --> 00:15:12.071 want to change away from the fossil alternatives. 00:15:12.127 --> 00:15:20.510 In some member states we have um. Tax legislation that means that there's a four 00:15:20.567 --> 00:15:27.355 times higher tax on electricity than on gas this is obviously counterproductive 00:15:27.427 --> 00:15:33.362 towards our our objectives and I think that a crisis like this is a good opportunity 00:15:33.441 --> 00:15:38.375 to to do something about it. On on diesel of course we will together with IEA 00:15:38.499 --> 00:15:44.482 monitor the the effects this is not the only thing we're doing yesterday 00:15:44.557 --> 00:15:50.419 Commissioner Kubilius and myself had the first dialogue meeting with the refineries 00:15:50.527 --> 00:15:58.600 trying to ramp up their production even more but there's no doubt that we will do 00:15:58.646 --> 00:16:03.819 whatever we can but at the end of the day we are looking into a winter with high 00:16:03.898 --> 00:16:11.117 prices on diesel. And that is a consequence of the geopolitical situation that we're 00:16:11.167 --> 00:16:12.367 in right now. 00:16:14.767 --> 00:16:16.447 Thank you. Next I have Nicholas. 00:16:20.947 --> 00:16:25.467 Thank you Nicholas Comaya for rapporteur. Like you said Commissioner Jorgensen the 00:16:25.510 --> 00:16:29.887 winter is promising to be tough there's growing calls also particularly from certain 00:16:29.947 --> 00:16:35.222 countries that repower you the ban on Russian gas should be reconsidered in that 00:16:35.287 --> 00:16:38.583 light do you think that's something that you will take on board especially given the 00:16:38.618 --> 00:16:44.995 fact that you have yet to propose the Russian oil ban and Minister O'Brien how do 00:16:45.033 --> 00:16:48.577 you square the circle between the willingness to get this over the line ASAP and at 00:16:48.628 --> 00:16:52.875 the same time there's also a blocking minor majority now when it comes to the 00:16:52.922 --> 00:16:56.467 harmonization of network tariffs there's the French non-paper the French German 00:16:56.527 --> 00:17:01.860 alliance on this do you see yourself reducing this proposal more to a focus on grid 00:17:01.936 --> 00:17:05.167 congestion is that where you see the discussion heading thank you. 00:17:07.627 --> 00:17:15.240 So let let me let me start. The the position of the commission is very clear on this 00:17:15.547 --> 00:17:22.930 we have. Introduced a ban that's being implemented now on the import of Russian gas 00:17:23.047 --> 00:17:30.561 and that ban stands why first of all because if we repeated the mistakes of our past 00:17:30.622 --> 00:17:36.547 then we would again be in the pocket of an enemy I. 00:17:36.667 --> 00:17:41.285 Served as minister in Denmark in February 22 so I know what it's like to be a 00:17:41.326 --> 00:17:45.727 minister that has to fear whether or not the gas taps are being turned off the next 00:17:45.847 --> 00:17:51.876 day we had to make lists of companies that we would close down by force if necessary 00:17:51.934 --> 00:17:57.850 and we were not even half as exposed in Denmark as many other member states Germany 00:17:57.967 --> 00:18:04.102 got gas from Russia to a degree that if that had been closed down from one day to 00:18:04.147 --> 00:18:11.016 the next the country would have been in recession probably so that's a very 00:18:11.060 --> 00:18:15.263 vulnerable situation to be in and we should never put ourselves in that situation 00:18:15.320 --> 00:18:24.860 again second this is a country that's used its energy deliverance to us. 00:18:25.087 --> 00:18:33.051 As a means to blackmail us of course 100% unacceptable and thirdly this is more for 00:18:33.129 --> 00:18:38.685 political statement but nonetheless listen. 00:18:38.887 --> 00:18:44.737 The money that we have spent in Europe buying Russian gas has helped finance a war 00:18:44.822 --> 00:18:53.197 against our friends buying bombs and drones that kill people in Ukraine so no we do 00:18:53.287 --> 00:18:56.287 not want to start buying Russian gas again. 00:19:00.307 --> 00:19:04.942 Just Nicholas narration that network charges and where you see where we see that 00:19:05.006 --> 00:19:10.381 moving politics is the art of the possible we listen to our colleagues today we take 00:19:10.449 --> 00:19:14.804 on board what was said you've heard from our commissioner as well and the presidency 00:19:14.873 --> 00:19:19.304 will work on behalf of the member states and with the commission to come forward 00:19:19.387 --> 00:19:24.929 with to move this forward and we're still determined to get this back to December 00:19:25.027 --> 00:19:29.569 council meeting I'm optimistic not naive these things aren't easily done people come 00:19:29.607 --> 00:19:33.892 from different points of view different countries have different attributes as well 00:19:33.957 --> 00:19:37.470 to to their own systems too but I think fundamentally there's an absolute 00:19:37.522 --> 00:19:42.007 understanding there I didn't have any minister say to me that there that the network 00:19:42.067 --> 00:19:47.295 charges as they remain currently should be should persist into the future we've 00:19:47.347 --> 00:19:51.274 always got to look at reform revision and doing things better and obviously that 00:19:51.323 --> 00:19:55.320 plus the grids package which we discussed today are two really critical parts of 00:19:55.372 --> 00:19:59.994 actually you know taking the next step forward for the EU in relation to that 00:20:00.035 --> 00:20:03.731 electrification that I spoke on earlier on driving affordability supporting 00:20:03.787 --> 00:20:07.153 competitiveness as well so it was a really good discussion today yeah different 00:20:07.191 --> 00:20:11.539 points of view that's fine but look we'll we will work with our colleagues on that 00:20:11.577 --> 00:20:16.188 in a very respectful way to come forward with to come back again hopefully for 00:20:16.232 --> 00:20:20.930 general approach in December and that's what we're determined to do. 00:20:21.007 --> 00:20:22.807 Thank you. Ben please. 00:20:28.267 --> 00:20:32.613 Hi Ben Munster from Politico and thank you for this the first question is what the 00:20:32.661 --> 00:20:37.027 question is directed towards Dan Jorgensen so you mentioned you know that there are 00:20:37.067 --> 00:20:39.962 short-term measures that were raised today but you you sort of mentioned you 00:20:39.997 --> 00:20:44.815 basically just mentioned fuel subsidies were there other short-term measures that 00:20:44.863 --> 00:20:48.251 were raised today that the commission might put forward in the future obviously we 00:20:48.291 --> 00:20:53.596 only have two months left and on the subject of fuel subsidies you you know you you 00:20:53.647 --> 00:20:57.440 sort of semi-endorse that idea you know you said that there's some countries that 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:02.623 you know where it's acceptable with the commission consider sort of increasing 00:21:02.675 --> 00:21:09.543 flexibilities around the fiscal rules to to accommodate more you know tax cuts on on 00:21:09.619 --> 00:21:14.357 petrol and diesel and stuff like that I might also add a methane question if I'm 00:21:14.407 --> 00:21:22.365 allowed so. I think you said that you stand by the one year delay that the 00:21:22.407 --> 00:21:26.587 commission put forward obviously we have the parliament now pushing for three years 00:21:26.647 --> 00:21:30.415 why didn't the commission try and enforce that one year delay I mean did you I mean 00:21:30.476 --> 00:21:34.468 there was some calls for the commission to you know threaten to withdraw the bill to 00:21:34.532 --> 00:21:39.355 make sure that countries and parliamentarians didn't go further than the one year 00:21:39.425 --> 00:21:46.471 delay but it didn't there wasn't much of an effort to ensure that you know the 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.127 co-legislators didn't get carried away essentially and I'm wondering why the 00:21:50.174 --> 00:21:51.607 commission didn't do that. Thank you. 00:21:56.467 --> 00:22:01.623 So what can be done on on on a short term? 00:22:01.807 --> 00:22:09.071 Well there are actually things that member states can do and some are doing it. 00:22:09.247 --> 00:22:15.162 Social leasing schemes for electric vehicles social leasing schemes for heat pumps 00:22:15.247 --> 00:22:21.856 subsidies for replacing your gas boiler with heat pump subsidies for renovation 00:22:21.908 --> 00:22:27.636 changing windows insulation stuff like that so this is not one solution of course 00:22:27.671 --> 00:22:31.178 there's no silver bullet but when you add all of these things up it can actually 00:22:31.242 --> 00:22:38.454 matter and if we and if we look at what we did in 22 in in Europe it was a lot of 00:22:38.537 --> 00:22:44.527 efforts like these that actually in many member states led to a decrease in demand 00:22:44.647 --> 00:22:50.408 of of gas we've seen it also since February now in in Europe again and and I applaud 00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:56.823 it I think there's potential to do more of that sort and this is also why I keep 00:22:56.896 --> 00:23:01.674 arguing that lowering the the tax on electricity is one very good way of 00:23:01.731 --> 00:23:09.819 incentivizing this whilst at the same time giving relief to to consumers on on the 00:23:09.942 --> 00:23:17.749 fossil subsidies you said I halfway endorsed it well that may be one way of of of 00:23:17.841 --> 00:23:25.015 putting it I don't think any of us likes subsidies on something that we actually 00:23:25.111 --> 00:23:30.467 trying to get rid of that's for sure I don't think any minister around the table 00:23:30.537 --> 00:23:37.162 today wanted that on the other hand I also used to serve as as minister in a country 00:23:37.224 --> 00:23:41.547 where we were on one hand really fighting very very hard to get out of gas and 00:23:41.610 --> 00:23:45.979 replace it by electrification or district heating but at the same time we actually 00:23:46.026 --> 00:23:50.613 did give a direct subsidy for those using gas when the crisis was hardest the last 00:23:50.668 --> 00:23:56.037 time so I understand it because if people are freezing I mean this is what we're 00:23:56.075 --> 00:24:00.021 talking about people are freezing then of course policymakers need to be able to 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:06.430 help same goes for for the ability to put some fuel on your car so that you can go 00:24:06.476 --> 00:24:12.645 to work I I understand it but but I at the same time I I just want to underline that 00:24:12.718 --> 00:24:19.789 it's extremely important that this is targeted and temporary and it's extremely 00:24:19.867 --> 00:24:25.410 important that if there are alternatives that might might work just as well that 00:24:25.469 --> 00:24:30.247 would indeed be in line with our long-term strategy then that is a much smarter way 00:24:31.567 --> 00:24:40.370 to go about it on the methane we we put forward our proposal let's see what what 00:24:40.438 --> 00:24:45.763 parliament and and council can can agree on we want to help facilitate that 00:24:45.820 --> 00:24:50.542 discussion as best we can of course but there is a reason why I put forward the 00:24:50.588 --> 00:24:54.560 proposal I did this is because we think that that is the right balance that that we 00:24:54.618 --> 00:24:55.818 found. 00:24:57.547 --> 00:25:00.957 And just really briefly on one thing to the commissioner spoke about you know member 00:25:00.996 --> 00:25:04.355 states taking individual action as well and what's appropriate like those targeted 00:25:04.396 --> 00:25:07.809 supports I'm going to give just two Irish examples we've done that for low middle 00:25:07.854 --> 00:25:11.473 income households through fuel supports we've increased those fuel supports and we 00:25:11.510 --> 00:25:14.960 extended the term in which they're paid so direct payments to assist families with 00:25:15.007 --> 00:25:19.767 increased fuel costs and we're we're agnostic on where the what type of fuel that 00:25:19.817 --> 00:25:24.046 they get because as Dan said rightly we're acutely aware of there's you know there 00:25:24.078 --> 00:25:26.769 are millions of people literally within the union who can't afford to pay their 00:25:26.811 --> 00:25:30.086 bills and they make a decision to say well I'm going to switch my heat on or not 00:25:30.127 --> 00:25:33.367 over the course over the course of winter the other thing I would say again is like 00:25:33.434 --> 00:25:38.169 on retrofitting we use our carbon tax in Ireland to actually retrofit homes so 00:25:38.247 --> 00:25:44.657 actually this year alone from January to to last month we've 100,000 households have 00:25:44.707 --> 00:25:49.198 applied for retrofitting we've done 300,000 households out of a stock of just over 2 00:25:49.250 --> 00:25:53.304 million now what does that do it actually reduces their energy consumption reduces 00:25:53.356 --> 00:25:58.061 their bills as well makes their homes warmer more efficient healthier and reduces 00:25:58.136 --> 00:26:02.555 that demand as well things like solar like like domestic battery like windows and 00:26:02.609 --> 00:26:05.450 doors grants attic insulation all of those various different things so lots of 00:26:05.502 --> 00:26:09.908 member states are doing things and that protects then permanently against future 00:26:09.967 --> 00:26:14.605 price shocks too because it drives those costs down for families as does EVs and 00:26:14.651 --> 00:26:19.155 that I don't think it's a coincidence that that EVs are like the number one choice 00:26:19.206 --> 00:26:23.416 of of vehicle now that people are buying yes very good for the for the environment 00:26:23.467 --> 00:26:27.469 and that's what we want certainly but again cost you're looking average cost savings 00:26:27.531 --> 00:26:32.527 about 1600 euro per year in relation to an ICE car versus versus an EV so I think 00:26:32.587 --> 00:26:37.356 the people are in some instances ahead of this and they need to be supported through 00:26:37.409 --> 00:26:42.252 it but the bigger picture is is that is that at a grid level and an energy 00:26:42.307 --> 00:26:43.327 generation level is 00:26:43.327 --> 00:26:49.038 accelerating our renewables and and accelerating electrification. 00:26:49.147 --> 00:26:52.687 Thank you very much minister we have time for one final question here thank you. 00:26:55.207 --> 00:26:57.367 Johannes Winterhagen, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung 00:26:58.087 --> 00:27:04.368 I'd like to know how much you discussed about resilience in this context and the 00:27:04.507 --> 00:27:11.618 idea especially on the refineries strategy how would you manage is there an idea how 00:27:11.692 --> 00:27:15.847 to manage a phase out industry to keep capacities in Europe. 00:27:17.287 --> 00:27:24.152 So what we decided yesterday in in the first dialogue meeting we had was that we're 00:27:24.252 --> 00:27:30.680 working towards making a road map together with the refineries because they are in a 00:27:30.718 --> 00:27:33.962 difficult situation right now we're asking them to deliver more for our societies 00:27:34.005 --> 00:27:37.687 and they are doing so and we're grateful we also know that after a 00:27:37.747 --> 00:27:40.207 crisis there's going to be a surplus of the products that they produ