1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Brussels Live Transcribed and translated by AI 2 00:00:00,007 --> 00:00:03,720 So, good evening, everyone, and welcome to this press conference following the first 3 00:00:03,761 --> 00:00:06,498 meeting of the Energy Council under the Irish Presidency. 4 00:00:06,547 --> 00:00:10,437 We're joined here by Darryl Bryan, Minister for Climate Energy and the Environment; 5 00:00:10,490 --> 00:00:13,325 Timmy Dooley, Minister of State at the Department of Climate Energy and the 6 00:00:13,367 --> 00:00:16,353 Environment with special responsibility for the marine; 7 00:00:16,438 --> 00:00:20,063 and Dan Jørgensen, European Commissioner for Energy and Housing. 8 00:00:20,107 --> 00:00:23,278 So I'm first going to give the floor to Minister O'Brien, then Minister Dooley, and 9 00:00:23,321 --> 00:00:24,727 then the Commissioner. Minister O'Brien. 10 00:00:28,987 --> 00:00:33,569 Should I go over Tasha Gromal? Good. Patter, good afternoon, everyone, and Dan, I'd 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:39,090 like to thank you and the member states for a really productive first meeting of the 12 00:00:39,127 --> 00:00:43,891 Energy Council under the Irish Presidency today, and a sincere thank you for your 13 00:00:44,029 --> 00:00:50,218 engagement today. This morning we had a very constructive first discussion on the 14 00:00:50,275 --> 00:00:56,095 network charges proposal, the ongoing conflict, obviously, in the Middle East is a 15 00:00:56,167 --> 00:01:02,489 stark reminder that EU electrification is an economic and security imperative. 16 00:01:02,587 --> 00:01:07,738 The network charges file will help accelerate our EU-wide electrification agenda, 17 00:01:07,814 --> 00:01:12,708 and will help make Europe the world's first electric continent. 18 00:01:12,787 --> 00:01:18,830 Its goal is to help us optimize the use of new and existing grid infrastructure. 19 00:01:18,907 --> 00:01:23,585 We'd be very open to exchange this morning, and we are certainly going to take on 20 00:01:23,647 --> 00:01:28,148 board the views of member states as we move this proposal forward to the December 21 00:01:28,207 --> 00:01:35,388 Council meeting. It's important that we agree on the real impact that this could 22 00:01:35,445 --> 00:01:39,764 have for our citizens and our ambition, as I said, is to reach a general approach on 23 00:01:39,811 --> 00:01:43,299 network charges at the December Energy Council. 24 00:01:43,387 --> 00:01:47,764 I'd also like to point to the importance of the European Grids package to the EU's 25 00:01:47,827 --> 00:01:53,617 electrification agenda. We need to deploy grid infrastructure to realize our 26 00:01:53,692 --> 00:01:59,449 ambition for a more electrified, a more efficient energy system, which will put 27 00:01:59,527 --> 00:02:04,662 downward pressure on prices borne by our citizens and our businesses. 28 00:02:04,747 --> 00:02:08,611 Negotiations with the European Parliament on the grids package are well underway, 29 00:02:08,666 --> 00:02:12,960 and we do intend to reach final agreement under our presidency. 30 00:02:13,087 --> 00:02:20,021 We also had a valuable exchange of views on energy security, with a view of the 31 00:02:20,167 --> 00:02:25,293 looking at the upcoming winter in particular, but beyond that too, and I was really 32 00:02:25,355 --> 00:02:30,173 glad to have Darren the Moldovan Minister for Energy and that he accepted the 33 00:02:30,227 --> 00:02:34,678 invitation of the Irish Presidency to join the discussion today and for him to 34 00:02:34,759 --> 00:02:39,318 present to member states and colleagues around the experience in Moldova and the 35 00:02:39,385 --> 00:02:44,994 risks to that they are enduring every single day of the week, and every week of the 36 00:02:45,067 --> 00:02:46,267 year. 37 00:02:46,327 --> 00:02:51,929 Regrettably, our Ukrainian Minister Denis was not able to join the meeting because 38 00:02:51,985 --> 00:02:55,798 of Russian attacks against Ukrainian energy infrastructure. 39 00:02:55,867 --> 00:03:01,404 And I would like to once again express the EU's full solidarity with the people of 40 00:03:01,468 --> 00:03:04,657 Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression. 41 00:03:04,747 --> 00:03:08,964 Russia's war against Ukraine and the ongoing crisis in the Middle East and the 42 00:03:09,007 --> 00:03:13,378 climate-related risks have driven up energy costs all across Europe. 43 00:03:13,447 --> 00:03:17,372 We'd have very good exchange amongst ministers following up on the discussion held 44 00:03:17,425 --> 00:03:24,191 by our leaders earlier this month. We also had a very useful discussion, I thought, 45 00:03:24,318 --> 00:03:31,436 on the post-2030 framework, focusing in on energy targets and this was an important 46 00:03:31,502 --> 00:03:35,717 opportunity for member states and colleagues to articulate their priorities for the 47 00:03:35,770 --> 00:03:40,597 framework as the Commission works to develop and finalize the proposal, which Dan, 48 00:03:40,642 --> 00:03:44,831 our Commissioner, has confirmed will now be published in Quarter One of next year. 49 00:03:44,887 --> 00:03:49,364 You will have seen from today's Council that the Irish Presidency is focused on 50 00:03:49,442 --> 00:03:53,989 helping Europe deliver clean and affordable energy for our citizens. 51 00:03:54,067 --> 00:03:57,180 This is a shared agenda of the European Union. 52 00:03:57,247 --> 00:04:02,231 We have important work to do as we prepare for the next Energy Council in December, 53 00:04:02,287 --> 00:04:07,148 and I'm very, very grateful for the support and engagement of the member states 54 00:04:07,207 --> 00:04:10,390 indeed of the Commission and of the European Parliament. 55 00:04:10,447 --> 00:04:13,766 So with that, I'd like to hand over to my colleague Minister Dooley, who will take 56 00:04:13,810 --> 00:04:15,247 you through the lunchtime discussion. 57 00:04:16,807 --> 00:04:21,851 Thanks very much, Darryl and Dan. Great to have been part of the discussions today. 58 00:04:21,907 --> 00:04:26,122 Over lunch we had a constructive discussion on how investment roadmaps could help 59 00:04:26,172 --> 00:04:30,927 the EU to deliver the very significant investments that's needed for the energy 60 00:04:30,992 --> 00:04:35,245 sector in the years ahead. Now, of course, as part of the reform of the upcoming 61 00:04:35,287 --> 00:04:39,910 governance regulation, ministers reflected on how investment roadmaps could provide 62 00:04:39,967 --> 00:04:44,185 clearer signals to investors and also to help member states identify the investments 63 00:04:44,227 --> 00:04:49,520 needed for energy transition. The discussions focused on the importance of 64 00:04:49,567 --> 00:04:54,612 simplification looking at how these roadmaps can provide clear and accessible 65 00:04:54,668 --> 00:04:59,075 information for both investors and member states, and while retaining the key data 66 00:04:59,139 --> 00:05:04,761 and milestones needed to track progress, the discussions of course goes to the heart 67 00:05:04,819 --> 00:05:07,923 of the Irish Presidency theme of competitiveness. 68 00:05:07,987 --> 00:05:12,545 Clearer and more predictable investment planning can help mobilize investment while 69 00:05:12,607 --> 00:05:16,622 strengthening the clean energy transition and Europe's competitiveness, and it was 70 00:05:16,663 --> 00:05:21,607 very clear from the discussion that member states recognized the importance of legal 71 00:05:21,667 --> 00:05:27,979 certainty and good governance to ensure that investment was protected and was that 72 00:05:28,048 --> 00:05:32,410 the opportunities were attractive to the wider investment community. 73 00:05:32,467 --> 00:05:33,667 Thank you very much. 74 00:05:39,367 --> 00:05:48,181 Thank you. Thank you, ministers. I agree that we've had a very good day. 75 00:05:48,367 --> 00:05:57,685 There's no doubt that. Ministers from all member states know that we are facing a 76 00:05:57,801 --> 00:06:06,960 difficult winter. The crisis that we're in right now, due to the situation in the 77 00:06:07,068 --> 00:06:15,607 Middle East, means that we are looking at very high prices of both gas and oil 78 00:06:15,754 --> 00:06:25,125 products, we. Do not expect the security of supply issue as such but for the 79 00:06:25,177 --> 00:06:29,955 citizens that are struggling to pay their bills that might not matter. 80 00:06:30,067 --> 00:06:34,965 If you are not able to pay your gas bill, it doesn't really matter how much gas is 81 00:06:35,133 --> 00:06:44,100 out there so we need to take this extremely serious and this is also why we today 82 00:06:44,234 --> 00:06:50,467 amongst other things discussed what can actually be done also in the short term and 83 00:06:50,567 --> 00:06:57,680 things can be done. So there's the possibility of course of using subsidies if 84 00:06:57,746 --> 00:07:05,791 member states choose to subsidize fossils which I understand that sometimes can be 85 00:07:05,876 --> 00:07:14,259 necessary we agreed at these measures needs to be targeted and temporary I think 86 00:07:14,307 --> 00:07:19,505 it's also fair to say that there's a clear understanding in the room amongst 87 00:07:19,584 --> 00:07:24,350 ministers that supporting efforts that are also to the benefit of our long-term 88 00:07:24,431 --> 00:07:30,792 transition is very beneficial so any measures that has to do with electrification 89 00:07:30,847 --> 00:07:37,424 moving away from gas boilers, oil boilers into heat pumps electric vehicles instead 90 00:07:37,469 --> 00:07:44,672 of combustion engine cars and so forth this can really mean a lot also on the short 91 00:07:44,802 --> 00:07:56,887 term now on the question of diesel um. We are in the process of stabilizing the 92 00:07:56,977 --> 00:08:02,124 diesel markets as best we can as winters begin today. 93 00:08:02,167 --> 00:08:06,772 We had a very important discussion on the state of play of the oil stock release EU 94 00:08:06,824 --> 00:08:11,739 member states have reaffirmed their commitment to an accelerated release of 42.6 95 00:08:11,822 --> 00:08:18,150 million barrels from strategic reserves over the next months and around half of this 96 00:08:18,247 --> 00:08:26,047 will be diesel. We of course also discussed the situation in Ukraine unfortunately 97 00:08:26,107 --> 00:08:33,385 we are looking into a winter again that will be very harsh with Russia keeping 98 00:08:33,487 --> 00:08:40,360 unfortunately the focus on attacking energy infrastructure in the most brutal way 99 00:08:40,484 --> 00:08:46,524 and we stand firm in our support for Ukraine both technically but obviously of 100 00:08:46,578 --> 00:08:47,707 course also 101 00:08:47,707 --> 00:08:52,557 financially to rebuild and secure their energy sector. 102 00:08:52,627 --> 00:08:53,827 Thank you. 103 00:08:56,887 --> 00:08:59,734 Thank you very much, Commissioner, and ministers. 104 00:08:59,767 --> 00:09:03,731 So I'm going to open up the floor to questions from the room and online as well. 105 00:09:03,787 --> 00:09:07,794 It's possible please state your name and your media outlet. 106 00:09:07,927 --> 00:09:09,127 Fabio. 107 00:09:11,287 --> 00:09:15,558 Yes. Hi. Thank you for the floor. This is Fabio Napoli for the Italian News Agency 108 00:09:15,607 --> 00:09:25,377 Public Policy. I got a question on metane regulation even if it's an off topic I 109 00:09:25,453 --> 00:09:34,125 would like to know from the minister O'Brien since the parliament already voted for. 110 00:09:34,207 --> 00:09:40,615 Three years postponement and here in the council there are two block one asking for 111 00:09:40,713 --> 00:09:47,916 one year and one another for three years what can be the landing zone for the 112 00:09:48,007 --> 00:09:55,365 commission. I would like to know if you are happy with the three years postponement 113 00:09:55,442 --> 00:10:02,642 and if the college is later are going to agree on a two years or three years if the 114 00:10:02,712 --> 00:10:05,596 commission is ready to withdraw its proposal. 115 00:10:05,647 --> 00:10:06,847 Thank you. 116 00:10:09,727 --> 00:10:14,448 Thanks, Fabian. Firstly just to state the obvious the time is of the essence on this 117 00:10:14,494 --> 00:10:18,678 because the regulations as previously agreed will come into force from January of 118 00:10:18,727 --> 00:10:23,603 next year. So there is a lot of work going on in that regard to try to find a 119 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,888 workable way forward that will gain that will gain agreement. 120 00:10:28,987 --> 00:10:32,974 Obviously we're not there yet and we're not going to discuss that those elements you 121 00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:39,360 know here publicly but I think there is a desire to find a workable compromise 122 00:10:39,474 --> 00:10:44,802 noting obviously the vote of the parliament as well but work is ongoing. 123 00:10:44,887 --> 00:10:50,952 I think we want to really come back next week by the 6th of November actually and 124 00:10:51,007 --> 00:10:57,222 we've had discussions with our own team here in Luxembourg and indeed right the way 125 00:10:57,285 --> 00:11:02,755 through and in Brussels in that regard. So time is of the essence if there is to be 126 00:11:02,827 --> 00:11:07,521 an agreement on this which we obviously will work as hard as we can in the Irish 127 00:11:07,558 --> 00:11:09,614 presidency to assist and make sure that that happens. 128 00:11:09,667 --> 00:11:10,867 Commissioner? 129 00:11:12,247 --> 00:11:20,297 So my opinion is still of course that the proposal that we in the commission put 130 00:11:20,383 --> 00:11:27,626 forward is. Adequate with regards to securing the situation in the coming winter. 131 00:11:27,727 --> 00:11:33,451 Hopefully a year from now will be in a completely different situation so I would 132 00:11:33,514 --> 00:11:38,726 very much still argue that one year is the right balance to find also with regards 133 00:11:38,792 --> 00:11:44,563 to the overall ambition of legislation that we're actually proud of that will help 134 00:11:44,674 --> 00:11:47,047 us fight methane emissions. 135 00:11:49,327 --> 00:11:51,367 Thank you. Next I have Ian. 136 00:11:58,987 --> 00:12:01,567 Hello Ian Johnson from the Financial Times. 137 00:12:01,627 --> 00:12:06,416 Thanks very much for taking the time. Question to both Minister O'Brien and 138 00:12:06,513 --> 00:12:14,268 Commissioner Jorgensen. In the text the discussions around the taxation proposal are 139 00:12:14,382 --> 00:12:19,701 of the network charges package there was a clear rejection from many member states. 140 00:12:19,747 --> 00:12:25,930 Does that provision now seem dead to you in this proposal? 141 00:12:26,047 --> 00:12:33,330 And secondly on the particularly to Commissioner Jorgensen on the stock release 142 00:12:33,427 --> 00:12:40,786 discussions of 42.6 million barrels to be released by the 15th of January that's 143 00:12:40,863 --> 00:12:48,327 about four days worth of EU oil use. Do you think that will realistically bring down 144 00:12:48,369 --> 00:12:50,527 prices for consumers and businesses? 145 00:12:53,227 --> 00:12:57,754 Thank you Ian. I'll take the network charges piece first and as I mentioned in my 146 00:12:57,812 --> 00:13:02,136 opening statement and I said to colleagues again today our absolute desire is to get 147 00:13:02,198 --> 00:13:08,592 network charges back at the December council energy council meeting for agreement to 148 00:13:08,647 --> 00:13:12,208 reach a general a general approach on that and I think today was really important 149 00:13:12,247 --> 00:13:16,132 that it was the first time kind of formally in the room that people were able to 150 00:13:16,183 --> 00:13:21,918 articulate their their own positions on that and as I said to colleagues today we'll 151 00:13:21,984 --> 00:13:27,692 reflect on that working with the commission taking on board the the quite in some 152 00:13:27,745 --> 00:13:31,064 instances forthright views that were put forward from some member states and that's 153 00:13:31,098 --> 00:13:34,948 fine and that's where that's we're there for but I think it is acknowledged to be 154 00:13:35,022 --> 00:13:41,084 fair that it is critically important that we move network charges forward so we'll 155 00:13:41,139 --> 00:13:45,273 be working over the coming weeks on that having taken into account the views of 156 00:13:45,346 --> 00:13:50,323 member states I wouldn't say anything is dead or off the table or anything like that 157 00:13:50,371 --> 00:13:54,164 at all at this stage it's just important that we reflect and as presidency as I said 158 00:13:54,197 --> 00:13:57,871 that we're in a constructive way that we actually move this forward because we must 159 00:13:57,967 --> 00:14:02,395 I think when people in fairness if you look at the desire they're in the room even 160 00:14:02,452 --> 00:14:06,621 though people had certain different maybe coming from things from different angles 161 00:14:06,667 --> 00:14:11,781 there was an absolute desire amongst ministers there in the room to move this file 162 00:14:11,830 --> 00:14:15,739 forward and we will do everything we can to get this back in December for general 163 00:14:15,787 --> 00:14:16,987 approach. 164 00:14:18,487 --> 00:14:25,972 Well I will certainly continue to to argue that lowering taxes on electricity is the 165 00:14:26,140 --> 00:14:37,507 right way to go. Member states are asking the commission for ideas and guidance in. 166 00:14:37,627 --> 00:14:42,561 A situation that is very difficult how can we lower prices what can we do what can 167 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:48,327 the European Union do well this is an example of something we can do that will work 168 00:14:48,405 --> 00:14:53,197 short term and will also help our long-term strategy. 169 00:14:53,287 --> 00:14:59,748 If you lower the prices of electricity it will immediately be seen on the bills of 170 00:14:59,836 --> 00:15:07,927 our consumers citizens and companies alike and it will give incentives for those who 171 00:15:08,047 --> 00:15:12,071 want to change away from the fossil alternatives. 172 00:15:12,127 --> 00:15:20,510 In some member states we have um. Tax legislation that means that there's a four 173 00:15:20,567 --> 00:15:27,355 times higher tax on electricity than on gas this is obviously counterproductive 174 00:15:27,427 --> 00:15:33,362 towards our our objectives and I think that a crisis like this is a good opportunity 175 00:15:33,441 --> 00:15:38,375 to to do something about it. On on diesel of course we will together with IEA 176 00:15:38,499 --> 00:15:44,482 monitor the the effects this is not the only thing we're doing yesterday 177 00:15:44,557 --> 00:15:50,419 Commissioner Kubilius and myself had the first dialogue meeting with the refineries 178 00:15:50,527 --> 00:15:58,600 trying to ramp up their production even more but there's no doubt that we will do 179 00:15:58,646 --> 00:16:03,819 whatever we can but at the end of the day we are looking into a winter with high 180 00:16:03,898 --> 00:16:11,117 prices on diesel. And that is a consequence of the geopolitical situation that we're 181 00:16:11,167 --> 00:16:12,367 in right now. 182 00:16:14,767 --> 00:16:16,447 Thank you. Next I have Nicholas. 183 00:16:20,947 --> 00:16:25,467 Thank you Nicholas Comaya for rapporteur. Like you said Commissioner Jorgensen the 184 00:16:25,510 --> 00:16:29,887 winter is promising to be tough there's growing calls also particularly from certain 185 00:16:29,947 --> 00:16:35,222 countries that repower you the ban on Russian gas should be reconsidered in that 186 00:16:35,287 --> 00:16:38,583 light do you think that's something that you will take on board especially given the 187 00:16:38,618 --> 00:16:44,995 fact that you have yet to propose the Russian oil ban and Minister O'Brien how do 188 00:16:45,033 --> 00:16:48,577 you square the circle between the willingness to get this over the line ASAP and at 189 00:16:48,628 --> 00:16:52,875 the same time there's also a blocking minor majority now when it comes to the 190 00:16:52,922 --> 00:16:56,467 harmonization of network tariffs there's the French non-paper the French German 191 00:16:56,527 --> 00:17:01,860 alliance on this do you see yourself reducing this proposal more to a focus on grid 192 00:17:01,936 --> 00:17:05,167 congestion is that where you see the discussion heading thank you. 193 00:17:07,627 --> 00:17:15,240 So let let me let me start. The the position of the commission is very clear on this 194 00:17:15,547 --> 00:17:22,930 we have. Introduced a ban that's being implemented now on the import of Russian gas 195 00:17:23,047 --> 00:17:30,561 and that ban stands why first of all because if we repeated the mistakes of our past 196 00:17:30,622 --> 00:17:36,547 then we would again be in the pocket of an enemy I. 197 00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:41,285 Served as minister in Denmark in February 22 so I know what it's like to be a 198 00:17:41,326 --> 00:17:45,727 minister that has to fear whether or not the gas taps are being turned off the next 199 00:17:45,847 --> 00:17:51,876 day we had to make lists of companies that we would close down by force if necessary 200 00:17:51,934 --> 00:17:57,850 and we were not even half as exposed in Denmark as many other member states Germany 201 00:17:57,967 --> 00:18:04,102 got gas from Russia to a degree that if that had been closed down from one day to 202 00:18:04,147 --> 00:18:11,016 the next the country would have been in recession probably so that's a very 203 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:15,263 vulnerable situation to be in and we should never put ourselves in that situation 204 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:24,860 again second this is a country that's used its energy deliverance to us. 205 00:18:25,087 --> 00:18:33,051 As a means to blackmail us of course 100% unacceptable and thirdly this is more for 206 00:18:33,129 --> 00:18:38,685 political statement but nonetheless listen. 207 00:18:38,887 --> 00:18:44,737 The money that we have spent in Europe buying Russian gas has helped finance a war 208 00:18:44,822 --> 00:18:53,197 against our friends buying bombs and drones that kill people in Ukraine so no we do 209 00:18:53,287 --> 00:18:56,287 not want to start buying Russian gas again. 210 00:19:00,307 --> 00:19:04,942 Just Nicholas narration that network charges and where you see where we see that 211 00:19:05,006 --> 00:19:10,381 moving politics is the art of the possible we listen to our colleagues today we take 212 00:19:10,449 --> 00:19:14,804 on board what was said you've heard from our commissioner as well and the presidency 213 00:19:14,873 --> 00:19:19,304 will work on behalf of the member states and with the commission to come forward 214 00:19:19,387 --> 00:19:24,929 with to move this forward and we're still determined to get this back to December 215 00:19:25,027 --> 00:19:29,569 council meeting I'm optimistic not naive these things aren't easily done people come 216 00:19:29,607 --> 00:19:33,892 from different points of view different countries have different attributes as well 217 00:19:33,957 --> 00:19:37,470 to to their own systems too but I think fundamentally there's an absolute 218 00:19:37,522 --> 00:19:42,007 understanding there I didn't have any minister say to me that there that the network 219 00:19:42,067 --> 00:19:47,295 charges as they remain currently should be should persist into the future we've 220 00:19:47,347 --> 00:19:51,274 always got to look at reform revision and doing things better and obviously that 221 00:19:51,323 --> 00:19:55,320 plus the grids package which we discussed today are two really critical parts of 222 00:19:55,372 --> 00:19:59,994 actually you know taking the next step forward for the EU in relation to that 223 00:20:00,035 --> 00:20:03,731 electrification that I spoke on earlier on driving affordability supporting 224 00:20:03,787 --> 00:20:07,153 competitiveness as well so it was a really good discussion today yeah different 225 00:20:07,191 --> 00:20:11,539 points of view that's fine but look we'll we will work with our colleagues on that 226 00:20:11,577 --> 00:20:16,188 in a very respectful way to come forward with to come back again hopefully for 227 00:20:16,232 --> 00:20:20,930 general approach in December and that's what we're determined to do. 228 00:20:21,007 --> 00:20:22,807 Thank you. Ben please. 229 00:20:28,267 --> 00:20:32,613 Hi Ben Munster from Politico and thank you for this the first question is what the 230 00:20:32,661 --> 00:20:37,027 question is directed towards Dan Jorgensen so you mentioned you know that there are 231 00:20:37,067 --> 00:20:39,962 short-term measures that were raised today but you you sort of mentioned you 232 00:20:39,997 --> 00:20:44,815 basically just mentioned fuel subsidies were there other short-term measures that 233 00:20:44,863 --> 00:20:48,251 were raised today that the commission might put forward in the future obviously we 234 00:20:48,291 --> 00:20:53,596 only have two months left and on the subject of fuel subsidies you you know you you 235 00:20:53,647 --> 00:20:57,440 sort of semi-endorse that idea you know you said that there's some countries that 236 00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:02,623 you know where it's acceptable with the commission consider sort of increasing 237 00:21:02,675 --> 00:21:09,543 flexibilities around the fiscal rules to to accommodate more you know tax cuts on on 238 00:21:09,619 --> 00:21:14,357 petrol and diesel and stuff like that I might also add a methane question if I'm 239 00:21:14,407 --> 00:21:22,365 allowed so. I think you said that you stand by the one year delay that the 240 00:21:22,407 --> 00:21:26,587 commission put forward obviously we have the parliament now pushing for three years 241 00:21:26,647 --> 00:21:30,415 why didn't the commission try and enforce that one year delay I mean did you I mean 242 00:21:30,476 --> 00:21:34,468 there was some calls for the commission to you know threaten to withdraw the bill to 243 00:21:34,532 --> 00:21:39,355 make sure that countries and parliamentarians didn't go further than the one year 244 00:21:39,425 --> 00:21:46,471 delay but it didn't there wasn't much of an effort to ensure that you know the 245 00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:50,127 co-legislators didn't get carried away essentially and I'm wondering why the 246 00:21:50,174 --> 00:21:51,607 commission didn't do that. Thank you. 247 00:21:56,467 --> 00:22:01,623 So what can be done on on on a short term? 248 00:22:01,807 --> 00:22:09,071 Well there are actually things that member states can do and some are doing it. 249 00:22:09,247 --> 00:22:15,162 Social leasing schemes for electric vehicles social leasing schemes for heat pumps 250 00:22:15,247 --> 00:22:21,856 subsidies for replacing your gas boiler with heat pump subsidies for renovation 251 00:22:21,908 --> 00:22:27,636 changing windows insulation stuff like that so this is not one solution of course 252 00:22:27,671 --> 00:22:31,178 there's no silver bullet but when you add all of these things up it can actually 253 00:22:31,242 --> 00:22:38,454 matter and if we and if we look at what we did in 22 in in Europe it was a lot of 254 00:22:38,537 --> 00:22:44,527 efforts like these that actually in many member states led to a decrease in demand 255 00:22:44,647 --> 00:22:50,408 of of gas we've seen it also since February now in in Europe again and and I applaud 256 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:56,823 it I think there's potential to do more of that sort and this is also why I keep 257 00:22:56,896 --> 00:23:01,674 arguing that lowering the the tax on electricity is one very good way of 258 00:23:01,731 --> 00:23:09,819 incentivizing this whilst at the same time giving relief to to consumers on on the 259 00:23:09,942 --> 00:23:17,749 fossil subsidies you said I halfway endorsed it well that may be one way of of of 260 00:23:17,841 --> 00:23:25,015 putting it I don't think any of us likes subsidies on something that we actually 261 00:23:25,111 --> 00:23:30,467 trying to get rid of that's for sure I don't think any minister around the table 262 00:23:30,537 --> 00:23:37,162 today wanted that on the other hand I also used to serve as as minister in a country 263 00:23:37,224 --> 00:23:41,547 where we were on one hand really fighting very very hard to get out of gas and 264 00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:45,979 replace it by electrification or district heating but at the same time we actually 265 00:23:46,026 --> 00:23:50,613 did give a direct subsidy for those using gas when the crisis was hardest the last 266 00:23:50,668 --> 00:23:56,037 time so I understand it because if people are freezing I mean this is what we're 267 00:23:56,075 --> 00:24:00,021 talking about people are freezing then of course policymakers need to be able to 268 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:06,430 help same goes for for the ability to put some fuel on your car so that you can go 269 00:24:06,476 --> 00:24:12,645 to work I I understand it but but I at the same time I I just want to underline that 270 00:24:12,718 --> 00:24:19,789 it's extremely important that this is targeted and temporary and it's extremely 271 00:24:19,867 --> 00:24:25,410 important that if there are alternatives that might might work just as well that 272 00:24:25,469 --> 00:24:30,247 would indeed be in line with our long-term strategy then that is a much smarter way 273 00:24:31,567 --> 00:24:40,370 to go about it on the methane we we put forward our proposal let's see what what 274 00:24:40,438 --> 00:24:45,763 parliament and and council can can agree on we want to help facilitate that 275 00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:50,542 discussion as best we can of course but there is a reason why I put forward the 276 00:24:50,588 --> 00:24:54,560 proposal I did this is because we think that that is the right balance that that we 277 00:24:54,618 --> 00:24:55,818 found. 278 00:24:57,547 --> 00:25:00,957 And just really briefly on one thing to the commissioner spoke about you know member 279 00:25:00,996 --> 00:25:04,355 states taking individual action as well and what's appropriate like those targeted 280 00:25:04,396 --> 00:25:07,809 supports I'm going to give just two Irish examples we've done that for low middle 281 00:25:07,854 --> 00:25:11,473 income households through fuel supports we've increased those fuel supports and we 282 00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:14,960 extended the term in which they're paid so direct payments to assist families with 283 00:25:15,007 --> 00:25:19,767 increased fuel costs and we're we're agnostic on where the what type of fuel that 284 00:25:19,817 --> 00:25:24,046 they get because as Dan said rightly we're acutely aware of there's you know there 285 00:25:24,078 --> 00:25:26,769 are millions of people literally within the union who can't afford to pay their 286 00:25:26,811 --> 00:25:30,086 bills and they make a decision to say well I'm going to switch my heat on or not 287 00:25:30,127 --> 00:25:33,367 over the course over the course of winter the other thing I would say again is like 288 00:25:33,434 --> 00:25:38,169 on retrofitting we use our carbon tax in Ireland to actually retrofit homes so 289 00:25:38,247 --> 00:25:44,657 actually this year alone from January to to last month we've 100,000 households have 290 00:25:44,707 --> 00:25:49,198 applied for retrofitting we've done 300,000 households out of a stock of just over 2 291 00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:53,304 million now what does that do it actually reduces their energy consumption reduces 292 00:25:53,356 --> 00:25:58,061 their bills as well makes their homes warmer more efficient healthier and reduces 293 00:25:58,136 --> 00:26:02,555 that demand as well things like solar like like domestic battery like windows and 294 00:26:02,609 --> 00:26:05,450 doors grants attic insulation all of those various different things so lots of 295 00:26:05,502 --> 00:26:09,908 member states are doing things and that protects then permanently against future 296 00:26:09,967 --> 00:26:14,605 price shocks too because it drives those costs down for families as does EVs and 297 00:26:14,651 --> 00:26:19,155 that I don't think it's a coincidence that that EVs are like the number one choice 298 00:26:19,206 --> 00:26:23,416 of of vehicle now that people are buying yes very good for the for the environment 299 00:26:23,467 --> 00:26:27,469 and that's what we want certainly but again cost you're looking average cost savings 300 00:26:27,531 --> 00:26:32,527 about 1600 euro per year in relation to an ICE car versus versus an EV so I think 301 00:26:32,587 --> 00:26:37,356 the people are in some instances ahead of this and they need to be supported through 302 00:26:37,409 --> 00:26:42,252 it but the bigger picture is is that is that at a grid level and an energy 303 00:26:42,307 --> 00:26:43,327 generation level is 304 00:26:43,327 --> 00:26:49,038 accelerating our renewables and and accelerating electrification. 305 00:26:49,147 --> 00:26:52,687 Thank you very much minister we have time for one final question here thank you. 306 00:26:55,207 --> 00:26:57,367 Johannes Winterhagen, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung 307 00:26:58,087 --> 00:27:04,368 I'd like to know how much you discussed about resilience in this context and the 308 00:27:04,507 --> 00:27:11,618 idea especially on the refineries strategy how would you manage is there an idea how 309 00:27:11,692 --> 00:27:15,847 to manage a phase out industry to keep capacities in Europe. 310 00:27:17,287 --> 00:27:24,152 So what we decided yesterday in in the first dialogue meeting we had was that we're 311 00:27:24,252 --> 00:27:30,680 working towards making a road map together with the refineries because they are in a 312 00:27:30,718 --> 00:27:33,962 difficult situation right now we're asking them to deliver more for our societies 313 00:27:34,005 --> 00:27:37,687 and they are doing so and we're grateful we also know that after a 314 00:27:37,747 --> 00:27:40,207 crisis there's going to be a surplus of the products that they produ